this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024

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It’s No Surprise That “Skills-Based” Hiring Has Not Worked (www.forbes.com)

submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by [email protected] to c/technology

127 comments fedilink hide all child comments

This article outlines an opinion that organizations either tried skills based hiring and reverted to degree required hiring because it was warranted, or they didn't adapt their process in spite of executive vision.

Since this article is non industry specific, what are your observations or opinions of the technology sector? What about the general business sector?

Should first world employees of businesses be required to obtain degrees if they reasonably expect a business related job?

Do college experiences and academic rigor reveal higher achieving employees?

Is undergraduate education a minimum standard for a more enlightened society? Or a way to hold separation between classes of people and status?

Is a masters degree the new way to differentiate yourself where the undergrad degree was before?

Edit: multiple typos, I guess that's proof that I should have done more college 😄

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[+] [email protected] 32 points 9 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (4 children)

In technology, what about software for an aircraft written and tested by skilled developers, but ones without degrees?

[–] silverbax 31 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Hiring devs with degrees does not guarantee anything quality about the software they write.

[–] linearchaos 15 points 9 months ago

A degree for developer just means that they know how to learn.

I've seen some straight a solid developers come straight out of college enter the enterprise sector and bomb right out.

Why aren't you using Python, why aren't you using inheritance. They're walking into these places with 20-year-old code bases and nowhere near enough money to rewrite any of it.

And the problem is, even if they get the opportunity to rewrite it, they try so hard to optimize it and put so many little smart decisions in there that becomes very difficult to maintain.

[–] calcopiritus 1 points 9 months ago

As someone currently getting a degree (and therefore surrounded by soon-to-be devs with degrees), I couldn't agree more. The requirements to pass are so low that it means nothing.

[–] ForgotAboutDre 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The control system and sensors algorithms would be developed by engineers (not software engineers). Then implemented by the software engineers. That is subsequently tested again by the non software engineers. It often auto coded from simulink models, requiring less input from software teams.

Most of the software development done by software engineers or developers in aircraft is scheduling, connecting pipes, data recording, networking etc. Keeping the aircraft flying is done by other engineers. These algorithms are more related to aircraft dynamics, electrical systems and sensor physics than algorithms used in software. Most control systems implemented are represented as analogue electronics, even when the engineers have only ever used digital systems for their control. In these cases knowledge of non-software topics are more important.

So it would still be people with degrees keeping the aircraft in the air. However, many of these roles could be accomplished by people who have non university qualifications or 4-5 year apprenticeships. But it's hard to teach the background maths involved during an apprenticeship as it's not being applied day to day and the other engineers skills may have atrophied compared to a university course. Degree apprenticeships do work well for this sort of thing.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

to be fair, software engineers are a lot more design heavy than implementation. software developers are the "implementers" where software engineers generally focus on the bigger picture as well

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

@[email protected]

many of these roles could be accomplished by people who have non university qualifications or 4-5 year apprenticeships. But it’s hard to teach the background maths involved during an apprenticeship

This was a very interesting example. Personally, I don't use any of the higher math that degree programs wanted. For people in the field you're talking about, it would be needed. So in that sense, a dev working for one company would be fine, until they wanted to dev for a company that needs those maths.

I counter my own point though and say that most people who don't use those higher level maths forget it. I am a very good use or lose example.

@cole@[email protected] I agree there can be separation of role types. This is annoyingly inconsistent across industry. Lead/architect/principle/engineer terms get thrown around for all kinds of roles. Sometimes companies just use them as title changes for promotion and talent retention. It would be nice if companies considered adapting a standardize framework for some uniformity. The NICE model comes to mind, but I've had people tell me they think it's too academic and not pragmatic in the real word. I don't think I agree with them.

[–] agitatedpotato 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Why do you need a degree just to be told by the accountant and c suite employees that you're codes safety festures are taking to long so shelf them?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 9 months ago

require skills

Does this mean skills learn on the job or from a higher education institution?

Would people accept a highrise Disney by a team of self taught engineers?

Would we allow a surgeon to practice without a medical degree?

What about if that surgeon went to a vocational school and then did the normal years of internship, fellowship, supervision, etc?