"NEW: Nintendo is suing the creators of popular Switch emulator Yuzu, saying their tech illegally circumvents Nintendo's software encryption and facilitates piracy. Seeks damages for alleged violations and a shutdown of the emulator.

Notes 1 million copies of Tears of the Kingdom downloaded prior to game's release; says Yuzu's Patreon support doubled during that time. Basically arguing that that is proof that Yuzu's business model helps piracy flourish."

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[–] hperrin 19 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

It is not illegal to make copies of games you own and play them on an emulator. That is what was decided by the courts. Nintendo is trying to make that illegal.

They’re using the DMCA to say that because Yuzu lets someone circumvent their encryption (which is illegal, but shouldn’t be), that’s the same as Yuzu circumventing their encryption.

That’s basically like saying VLC should be illegal because it has the capability of copying a DVD.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

They’re using the DMCA to say that because Yuzu lets someone circumvent their encryption (which is illegal, but shouldn’t be), that’s the same as Yuzu circumventing their encryption.

Yes, yes they are. That's how the DMCA works. It's mental.

[–] hperrin 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

That’s not how the DMCA works, or tons of other software would be illegal. It’s illegal to circumvent copy protection under the DMCA (something I wholeheartedly disagree with), but it’s not illegal to make something that can be used to circumvent copy protection.

In fact, there are exemptions to that provision and one of them states that circumventing copy protection in order to play a video game using assistive technologies is legal.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

It’s illegal to circumvent copy protection under the DMCA (something I wholeheartedly disagree with), but it’s not illegal to make something that can be used to circumvent copy protection.

It is explicitly illegal to produce any thing whose purpose it is to circumvent DRM:

(1) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that—
(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof;

I'm telling you, that law is mental.

In fact, there are exemptions to that provision and one of them states that circumventing copy protection in order to play a video game using assistive technologies is legal.

Could you point that specific exception in the law? I can't find it.

Link for convenience: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-105publ304/pdf/PLAW-105publ304.pdf

[–] hperrin 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

The exceptions are handled by the Library of Congress and go through a renewal process every three years. Here’s the one from 2021:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2021-10-28/pdf/2021-23311.pdf

The accessibility use exception is on the last page, middle of the page, paragraph labeled 21.

It’s illegal to make something that’s sole purpose is to circumvent copyright. Yuzu does not have that sole purpose, and doesn’t include the code necessary (prod.keys) to even accomplish it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

The actual text for reference:

Video games in the form of computer programs, embodied in lawfully acquired physical or downloaded formats, and operated on a general-purpose computer, where circumvention is undertaken solely for the purpose of allowing an individual with a physical disability to use software or hardware input methods other than a standard keyboard or mouse.

That explicitly only applies to physically disabled people. Yuzu is not specifically targetted at providing a different input method (at all) and certainly not solely for the physically disabled.

That exception is not relevant to this case.

[–] hperrin 1 points 10 months ago

I didn’t say it was. I used it as an example of when circumventing copy protection is allowed under the DMCA.

[–] echo64 -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

They’re using the DMCA to say that because Yuzu lets someone circumvent their encryption (which is illegal, but shouldn’t be),

Yes. That's what I'm saying. That's what I said.

[–] hperrin 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yuzu is not infringing on their copyright, some of the users are. Sue the users.

[–] echo64 -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

unfortunately, that isn't how the DMCA works

[–] hperrin 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Can you point me to the provision you’re talking about?

[–] echo64 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

(2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that— (A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; (B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or (C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person’s knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. (3) As used in this subsection— (A) to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and (B) a technological measure “effectively controls access to a work” if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.

[–] hperrin 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, so distributing the code necessary to perform the decryption is illegal. That’s why you have to hack an actual switch to get the code necessary to perform the decryption (prod.keys). All Yuzu is doing is running that code through an AES library to get the game and emulating a Switch to play it. You can’t make AES libraries illegal just because they can be used to decrypt copy protection.

It’s the same with DVD decryption. VLC is not illegal because it doesn’t include the codes used to decrypt DVDs. Once you have those codes, VLC can copy a DVD for you.

[–] echo64 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No, it's broader than that. Providing a mechanism is enough. Yes, this is functionally making maths illegal, and yes, this is a complaint we've had with the dmca for 20 years.

Providing the keys is against dmca, as is Providing the tooling that specifically breaks the rights management. This is just the shitty way Americans made the copyright system.

[–] hperrin 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I disagree that the DMCA makes AES libraries illegal.

[–] echo64 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Okay, well, that's your opinion based on nothing, so it doesn't mean much.

At the very least, read the prior art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_City_Studios%2C_Inc._v._Corley?wprov=sfla1

[–] hperrin 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don’t know if the two cases are equivalent, DeCSS included all code necessary to decrypt a copy protected DVD.

Yuzu does not include the necessary code to decrypt a Switch game. Users have to either “hack” their own Switch, or pirate the codes. What the users are doing is the illegal part here.

[–] echo64 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You're conflating the idea of code and keys. The keys are explicitly illegal as they directly fall under nintendo copyright.

The code is also falling under breach of dmca, as its entire use and focus is to break drm. This is the sticking point here.

Again, to labor the point, it's nothing about the keys, we don't need to talk about the keys.

[–] hperrin 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I’m using code in the sense of the word pass codes. Like, encryption codes. The codes you input to an encryption algorithm, along with the cyphertext, to get the plaintext.

But yes, Nintendo and you are saying that distributing Yuzu is illegal because it can only be used to violate the DMCA.

I disagree.

It can also be used in compliance with the DMCA, and nothing it includes are the intellectual property of Nintendo. There are exceptions to the rule about circumventing copy protection, and as long as you use Yuzu with an intent (such as security research) that falls in one of these exceptions, you can use Yuzu legally.

As long as Yuzu is never distributed by its authors with the encryption codes, it shouldn’t be illegal, even according to the DMCA. Otherwise, there would be no way to circumvent copy protection for legal purposes with regard to Switch games.

[–] echo64 0 points 10 months ago

You can disagree if you like, nintendos lawyers, prior art, and everyone who understands the dmca isn't going to agree with your stance at all.

Your stance is a moral one. The dmca is not moral. It exists to limit your freedoms in favor of companies' profits. Enjoy your blinkered outlook.

Also, never use the word code like that, it's incorrect and everyone will misunderstand you. It's wrong. Use encryption key.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I love YUZU and it’s wonderful…

…but if they didn’t have a Patreon they’d have a better stance

[–] yamanii -2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

You are being downvoted but reminder to everyone that the public Yuzu is way behind on updates and compatibility, they sell access to their most recent version via their patreon. Something that Ryujinx does not do, it purely is a donation and nothing more.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You can download and view the latest Yuzu source code for free and do practically whatever you want with it (GPLv3), including building and running it.

What paying via Patreon provides you is access to early access builds of the software. You're paying for the convenience of them compiling the latest version of the software for you.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

You can even get all the latest EA builds as .exe files on the Yuzu PineappleEA GitHub!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You can get all the latest Yuzu EA builds for free on their GitHub

But the fact that they’re kinda “selling” access… wait, why exactly DO they “sell” access even? They might not have as much legal trouble if they didn’t do that.