719
Hawaii rules against public carrying of guns without permit citing ‘aloha spirit’
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
719 points (98.5% liked)
News
23633 readers
2503 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
For one, I'm not sure what that has to do with this conversation. Generally speaking, the sort of person who carries a gun for work isn't the same sort of person who thinks they need a gun to buy milk.
Second, bold of you to assume that people who don't want to be around guns are entirely okay with them in the situations you mentioned. Most of them would rather not be around armed police, they would just prefer a police officer to a rando, because again, the cop didn't get up and think "I better make sure I'm ready to kill people in case it comes up at the grocery store".
Small thing I want to point out.
I don't feel like I need a fire extinguisher in my kitchen to make some pancakes. Is it a good idea? Sure. The chances are really small that I'll need it, but I'll be very happy to have it in case the worst case scenario comes up.
I don't carry a gun to the grocery store because I'm afraid I'll need it, I carry because I acknowledge that violent crime happens randomly to normal people like me and I'd rather be prepared for it than not. Modern guns retained in concealed holsters are actually very safe. They don't just "go off" on their own, and the only reason someone would draw theirs is if their life or a loved one's was in immediate danger.
I don't get up in the morning thinking "I better make sure I'm ready to kill people in case it comes up at the grocery store." That's way too reductive and gung ho.
Do you take your fire extinguisher with you to the store also?
When you drive there, do you make sure to buckle your five point harness and put on your full visor helmet?
Do you carry you basic EMS kit with you at all times? What about a couple doses of narcan? EpiPen?
My point is, the gun is a big piece of equipment for a very niche contingency. There are significantly more likely threats that you can take care of with less burden to your daily life than even the modest inconvenience of carrying a weapon.
Don't pretend that you need to carry a gun to the grocery store.
You want to carry a gun, for whatever reason.
No one thinks the gun is just gonna magic itself out of the holster and shoot someone.
The point is the gun doesn't make anyone else feel more safe. No one thinks to themselves "oh good, a stranger with a gun has arrived. That's just what this Baskin Robbins needed".
I was highlighting the convenience/safety tradeoff in taking basic precautions against low probability but high risk events. You were incorrectly stating that people feel like they need to carry a gun just to grocery shop, and I explained how that was false. Not sure how that went over your head, but it clearly did.
Ok, name a few? How else would someone mitigate risk of human threats against their life? I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at, but you don't have to forgo carrying a weapon for self defense in order to eat healthy and exercise to mitigate risk of heart failure. Carrying a gun everyday also isn't a burden, and I enjoy range time and training. People should be allowed means to self defense if they want it. If they abuse it, they get their rights taken away. It's really quite simple.
If the goal is having means for self defense against people, concealed carry is the only effective way to achieve it. Pepper spray, taser, knife, or anything else is objectively ineffective. I don't need a gun to grocery shop, but I do need a gun if I want adequate self defense.
The goal isn't to make other people feel safe, the goal is to help myself and my loved ones. Other people will never know that I have a gun on me, so whether I actually have one or don't doesn't change anything from their point of view.
So in the beginning, you explain how I was wrong to think that it's people feeling they need a gun just to go grocery shopping, then you end by explaining how you need a gun to feel safe when you go grocery shopping.
I'm not sure you've really thought your position through all the way.
I'm not sure what you're looking for when you ask me to name a few larger risks and mitigations to you and your families personal safety. I literally opened with a list of precautions you could, but almost certainly aren't, taking. Wearing a helmet while in a motor vehicle, or refitting your car with a five point harness will do a lot to prevent injury or death in a vehicle accident, which is stupendously more likely than dealing with a dangerous armed person.
If you're not taking those options, but you are carrying a gun, I find it hard to believe that it's just a simple risk mitigation analysis, because your probabilities are grossly out of line.
Also, who said anything about denying people weapons or even the ability to carry them?
I said some people don't like being around guns, and you should be able to say "you can't bring a weapon into my house or business without my permission".
If that sounds like denying people their right to self defense to you.... I'm not sure you're worth talking to.