this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
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I recall when I was first informed about “cultural appropriation” and how it boiled down to the concept that if a white person enjoys any aspect of a non-white culture it was an act of racism. Gotta love the gravity well of ultra liberal bullshit warping back in on itself and becoming fascism.
That's a bullshit explanation of cultural appropriation and the person you heard it from is an idiot. Actual cultural appropriation is when you take something from another culture and either erase or overwrite its origin, so the original culture in its original form becomes forgotten.
For example, when white artists re-recorded songs from black artists and specifically removed them from the credits and claimed them as their own, that was cultural appropriation. When movie studios chopped up Indian culture and presented it in a completely distorted and inaccurate light, so much so that the original meanings were lost, that was cultural appropriation.
Simply being a participant in someone else's cultural celebration is not cultural appropriation.
Considering I've seen a lot of gatekeeping morons go on about cultural appropriation without ever mentioning that, I think most don't understand this crucial distinction.
If you form your understanding on topics you don’t understand based on what “gatekeeping morons” think or do, you are going to be perpetually misinformed
Even though you're totally wrong with your definitions and facts, I do like your writing and appreciate your poetic license.
This isn't fascism, this is social conscience.
A lot less severe than what you pretend fascism is.
TBH though I do find the term used to gatekeep far more than I see it used to promote respect. Most cultural arts and traditions formed from bringing a few items/ideas from other cultures back to their own and overtime they incorporated it into their own. Shit like wearing a cultures clothing item that requires significant cultural acts to obtain in said culture when you are not a patt of it, theres nuance and issues of cultural respect to talk about there. But "cultural appropriation" as a term doesnt really get used that often with that level of nuance
"Gatekeep", "gaslight" they've become twitter shit words. Completely poisoned. Just mentionning them cast doubt and suspicion on the speaker. Even when it applies.
I mean, thats essentially what I'm arguing about with the word Cultural Appropriation
I mostly disagree, every time I visited a country and wore the cultural dress, the local culture has been very supportive and appreciative, and I've been able to enter into more interesting conversations because I'm willing to engage in their culture on a more visceral level.
I understand cultural sensitivity, but I have yet to encounter a culture that does not want to be recognized, particularly for their notable and impressive achievements.
Or if their clothing looks f****** cool, like in Morocco or Japan. China. Or the states. Or Vietnam. Or Germany(goofy but still fun). Malaysia.
Everywhere. Everywhere I have talked to people, they appreciate the appreciation of their culture.
To me, the term "cultural appropriation" refers to things like schools having kids make chicken feather "headdresses" to "celebrate" Native American Day, or wearing a religious symbol in a disrespectful way. Even though people like the person in the post can be annoying, I think it's still progress that we're able to have these discussions, and I think it's too bad that for many people the takeaway seems to be "cultural appropriation is never problematic." I'd take the person from the post any day over someone who thinks they're immune from criticism when they unintentionally engage in behavior that truly is disrespectful.
No goddamn way.
We've been having these discussions, as far as history is aware, since we started writing things down.
Give me the rebuttal friend any day.
I've been to too many countries, and what you're alleging is simply and practically incorrect.
Cultures appreciate genuine cultural appreciation.
But cultural appreciation is not what is meant by "cultural appropriation." Cultural appropriation is when it's done in a disrespectful manner.
I grew up with some utterly racist experiences in school -- the feather "headdress" and cardboard tipis, the sombreros on Cinco de Mayo, etc.
I wish I'd had someone at the time to explain why that was wrong.
That's ignorance, which is different from any sort of intentional disrespect.
You get a pass，as a kid.
You're going to ask, how do I know you're getting a pass?
Go ask anybody from the culture you're afraid of offending if you get a pass for being a child.
It'll be cool.
No one person can represent an entire culture though. That's why it's on us to learn how to be respectful.
For example, someone from Mexico might be just fine with offensive Hispanic stereotypes, but that doesn't excuse such behavior. You can't just ask a random person for a pass, like what? Even asking for something like that would be utterly tasteless lmao
Yes, a Mexican person being appreciative of a random foreign guy wearing a sombrero does excuse your interpretation of stereotypes.
You don't actually need to ask people for passes, that's a silly meme.
You can appreciate someone's culture and they'll talk to you like a human being.
Thats... kinda what I'm talking about? Cultural appropriation is most often used in a context of why you SHOULDNT engage in things you like about another culture
You're condemning the appreciation of another culture, which every culture will tell you is welcome and appreciated.
So it is kind of what you're talking about, except you're missing the main point.
IM not condemning the appreciation of other cultures. I'm saying the concept of Cultural Appropriation leads to the thought process of the woman who's tweet started this thread more than it leads to how to be better respectful in how you appreciate things. A person wouldnt "appopriate" anything unless something about it found interest in them. Just general lessons in respect in general are far more useful
Idk wtf "a person wouldn't appropriate anything unless something about it found interest in them" means, so I'm going to just assume that your heart is in the right place.
Happy New Year
Tbf it took me a bit to translate your response too =P But essentially what I mean is Appropriation is basically taking something from somewhere that you like, but in a disrespectful or dishonest fasion. Its basically inappropriate/disrespectful appreciation. If this is your polite way of exiting a conversation though I respect that and wish you a good day as well.
Not at all, that was my genuine disregard for a nonsensical comment.
I'm always up for clear discussion.
It sounds like you're agreeing with what I said, that if cultural appreciation disrespectful, then it is cultural appreciation.
If cultural appreciation is not respectful than it is cultural disrespect.
Are you trying to say that cultural appreciation is better than cultural disrespect?
Because total agree.
Yeah badically. I'm not a fan of the social justice trend to focus on the negative and judgy terminology of a nuanced issue rather than focussing on the positive and how can we do things better side. I do not like the concept of privilege, but appreciate the concept of intersectionality as an example, as even though they both focus on: We all experience challenges that others might not and its helpful to be aware that someone might be experiencing a challenge that you do not personally face. One comes at it from an inclusive "everyone is in this boat" perspective, and the other comes at it from an exclusionary "Some people experience this less than others" persepective. Tangent aside, I'd much rather we focus on how to better appreciate the things and concepts we like, than put the main focus on the "wrong" ways of appreciating what we like.
Tl:dr:
I dont like cultural appropriation as a concept
but
The concept of cultural appreciation and how most respectfully to do so I think is fantastic
If you truly believe what you're saying, then please travel.
Cultural appropriation done disrespectfully is obviously heinous, and I've never seen that occurrent real life, but if you are representing the culture that you are traveling among, they love it.
I haven't been to a single country where they don't love it.
And it's f****** awesome.
Yeah ok at this point I'm gonna respectfully opt out. I appreciate the conversation we are having, but theres small statements in each of your responses that I feel are disrespecting me such as calling my talking points nonsense, or assuming I havent traveled the world which I have. I do see and appreciate your love of other cultures And I share and share and respect that sentiment, so I do still wish you a good day
Wise.
You're not a fan of social justice, and I have way too much time for any one person.
It's a sound decision.
It's not any form of liberalism. The troll depicted in the original post, is building a strawman. A ridiculous opinion nobidy believes. The goal is simple to delegitimise the whole idea of cultural appropriation. To basically say, Disney did nothing wrong taking children's public domain folklore and locking it behind an intellectual property paywall for 100 years.
That's the real goal here. As usual the powerful taking away from the weak and saying they're not allowed to complain.
You are ultimately right, this is fasch behaviour. This is fasch wearing fake liberal faceskin.
Sorry to inform you, but I know people like this, and they're not building strawmen or false flags. They sincerely think they're helping, when all they're doing is creating strife and division.
I think it's malicious and they know what they're doing. They don't like the idea so they push it to the ridiculous extreme. Or, they're another form of malicious, the busybody intruder who wants to tell others how to live and pretending this is about the "victim" are simply using those "victims" as to justify their aggression.
Racist fascism in the guise of anti-racist inclusion.