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Need help converting dumb switches; one w/o any lights, one w/ Hue bulbs (self.homeassistant)

submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by Backfire to c/homeassistant

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I'm looking for a smart home solution use two switches in my living room (EU), in order to make them just smart enough so I can control some devices. The setup isn't very complex in itself, and I'm pretty sure it's doable - I'm just unsure what I'd need in order to use these switches in a 'smart' capacity...

This is what I had in mind:

On-off switch, connected to a single light with three Hue filament bulbs. I'd like this one to always be powered, as to make them always controllable
On-off switch, which should be connected to a light which isn't in use at all. Once this one is 'smart', I could control all other smart devices in the living room like a 'turn off everything'-button.

I have a Hue bridge and a Home Assistant instance running in my home.

With regards to wife-approval-factor, I'd rather leave the original switches in place, but I'm open to suggestions. I hope one of you can steer me in the right direction.

Edit: if this isn't the right community for the question, I'd understand, but I wasn't sure where to put it otherwise... I'd be open to suggestions to that too.

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[–] AA5B 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Every wall switch I’ve seen (in US) has an attachment for a ground wire, except really ancient ones, and every “Romex” style wiring includes a ground wire

My house is an older one with steel junction boxes, so those need to be grounded, but plastic boxes obviously do not.

So, my experience may be limited but I’ve always seen switches grounded and always seen everything support grounding.

As someone further up said, it’s the neutral that is the problem. I don’t know if it’s code or convention, but older wiring tends to use “switch loops” without a neutral, while more modern wiring is “pass through” and does. Even before smart switches, this was needed for things like lighted or programmable switches

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Current national electrical code in the US (since the 1980s) is a neutral in every switch box. Before then a switch loop was allowed so you see a lot of older construction with those.

You also see newer construction with those where Uncle Dave™ decided it was easier to only have to run a wire down from the light rather than fish it up through the crawlspace, NEC be damned.

[–] AA5B 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

It’s also a matter of saving on the wiring. I may not be (quite) that Uncle Dave, but I really regret a few places I pulled wire for a switch loop without the extra conductor for a neutral.

At the time, I rationalized it was already an improvement over what was there and I had no immediate use for the neutral. I believe the neutral wasn’t required by local code, only recommended, or I would have done it

Of course now I’m cursing my choice, trying to decide whether I need to go back and do it over, or whether I even can practically since it’s a two person job and my buddy retired to Florida. Wiring I pulled many years ago was great for dimmers, more convenient switches, and extra three-ways, but not so great for smart switches

Edit: looks like neutral wasn’t required until NEC 2011

http://www.cockam.com/switloop.htm

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I didn't realize it was that recent of an addition to the NEC. Weve only lived in super old houses where everything was always needing completely redone. I was usually replacing 2 conductor and cloth-jacketed stuff everywhere.

That was around 2012 and I remember the electrician we hired at the time mentioned it being a thing so that makes sense.