this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
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[–] [email protected] 79 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Trump is even worse than Biden on Gaza. I get trying to push Biden to do better, but let’s all keep the truth in mind. The actual truth, not the click bait bullshit horse race covered by the media.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

Electoral pressure is literally the only lever we have to push Biden to do better. There's no other way. Biden's team is making a bet that we aren't serious and that they can just use Trump to hold us hostage in the party.

So! No ceasefire, no votes. If this war is still going on by November, and Netanyahu has been saying it will, I will not vote for Biden.

It's so easy to earn our votes! Why is Biden sabotaging his own campaign?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The trouble you guys face is Trump is worse.

Just on Israel-Palestine alone, Trump is the person that recognised Jerusalem as Israel's capital city. If that isn't informative about his attitude about the situation...

[–] snek 26 points 1 year ago

Yeah, and that's Biden's fault, not the voters. He is letting an unqualified candidate beat him because he won't stop funding the war on Gaza.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

If the choices are genocide lite and genocide deluxe, the only answer is for America to be defeated. MLs call it revolutionary defeatism.

[–] Bogusmcfakester 1 points 1 year ago

Don't know why you have downvotes, this is sound logic, trump will embolden Israel even more while fucking up a lot of other important stuff e.g. Ukraine

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[–] snek 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Trump is worse than Biden on anything and everything. But if any president can get away with supporting a genocide campaign, is this not the way they get away with it? By simply claiming it will ruin their campaign efforts?

[–] bigFab -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's sad ppl only read your first sentence and then are fully satisfied with whatever shit you throw on, as long as you don't specifically say 'Biden is really bad'

[–] snek 17 points 1 year ago

I think it's Biden's responsibility to not support genocide, he owes it to his voters, and if he wants to keep them, he needs to change.

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[–] sylver_dragon 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Unfortunately, the Democrats keep going back to the well of "what are you going to do, vote for the other guy?" Their success on this has been hit or miss the last few cycles. In fairness, it's been a viable strategy in the past, if Democrats can get those few persuadable voters in the middle of the political spectrum to vote Democratic and not Republican, that's a net win for the Democratic candidate. But, that begs the question of "are there enough persuadable voters left to offset losses when parts of your base stay home?" With Biden's continued support for Israel's actions, it seems that their political calculus says, "yes".

However, we've seen this go both ways in the last few cycles. Clinton deployed the tactic in 2016 and commenters were out in force to brow-beat any of the deplorables who offered anything less than a full-thoated support of her turn. It got her the popular vote, but that has never mattered, she lost the election. The "vote blue no matter who" force was on full display again in 2020 and managed to eek out a win. And here you are again, ramping up for 2024. It's going to be interesting to see how it works out this time.

Biden in 2020 had the advantage of being somewhat unknown. Everyone knew him as Obama's Vice President and that provided him some of Obama's popularity. This time around, he's much more of a known quantity and he's going to be running on his own record. Brow-beating people with "anyone but Trump" seems less likely to work when voters may be looking at specific policies and actions which they find at odds with their beliefs. When Biden was more of an unknown, it was easy for voters to map their own views onto him. We see this with polls which include "generic Democrat/Republican" as an option. People map their own views onto the "generic" view and so are more supportive. When a candidate becomes a known quantity, support can drop off, as the voters know which areas they agree and disagree with a particular politician. In the same way, Biden's policies are now more understood by the voters and people may be less inclined to support him based on those policies.

Personally, I'm doubtful this sort of brow-beating is going to work this cycle. Biden's popularity isn't fantastic and he's too well known for people to map their views onto him. Moreover, responding to people being upset with his actions with a brow-beating seems like a poor response to peoples' legitimate issues. It seems more likely to convince them to disengage or push back even harder. Sure, what are they going to do, vote for the other guy? No, probably not, but they may also not show up on election day. And with the closely divided state of the US electorate, that might just be enough to swing things the other way.

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[–] Viking_Hippie 18 points 1 year ago (13 children)

I get trying to push Biden to do better

Do you, as a group, though?

Every time someone posts an article about how it's a bad thing that Biden is actively contributing to a genocide, the top comment is Trump whataboutism.

Yes, Trump is much worse, both on Israel and in general, but that's not the fucking point!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Biden ain't doing shit. He's gonna go to Michigan and lie, then he's going to maintain the same policies the US has for decades. It's silly to think otherwise. And so it goes.

[–] Potatofish 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You are very wrong. It is the point. The purpose of those posts is to confuse voters and discourage voting. The bigger picture is that Trump and MAGA can never be allowed to win for the good of the entire world.

[–] Viking_Hippie 2 points 1 year ago (10 children)

The purpose of those posts is to confuse voters and discourage voting

Yeah, because people can't POSSIBLE honestly have a problem with the guy who's supposed to represent any American to the left of fascism supporting genocide! Has to be a voter suppression plot! 🙄

Trump and MAGA can never be allowed to win for the good of the entire world.

True, but that doesn't mean that we have to set the bar at the abyssal point "better than Trump" rather than actually hold Biden accountable for his words and actions.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

On foreign policy the US remains a genocidal bully with questionable morals and alliances. But domestically the Democrats present a veneer of somewhat moral, inclusive values. So with the presented choice I would recommend to go with the seemingly moral guy and try to hold him accountable, rather than vote for the fascist maniac that acts the same domestically and foreign.

Just hope you get locally active to organize a stronger left for the future.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

The thing is: Without threatening their ability to get reelected you have no ability to hold them accountable.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Canadian Conservative party is the one that usually runs on "imagine/look at how bad the other guy would be" as a party platform. It's a bad look and a sign that you have nothing better. It's politicking for the sake of politicking.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It is a bad look and a sign of a lack of good options, but that's the situation.

Also, all Canadian parties run like that except for the Greens and the Bloc, and it's probably because they know they won't form a government