this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2024

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"Imperialism only counts if it's Western, otherwise it's just sparkling liberation" (media.kbin.social)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/politicalmemes

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ukraine is one of those messy topics nobody ill-informed should like touching tbh

This is ironically very correct.

I dont want to see Ukrainian citizens and soldiers exterminated, but I also dont want to see Russian citizens (drafted as soldiers) and soldiers exterminated

There is a very easy solution to that, available exclusively to Russia.

I don’t think that Ukraine should exist as an extension of Russian territory, but I also dont think it should exist to be an armed-to-the-teeth thorn in Russia’s side

... why do you think it's armed to the teeth? Do you think it was always armed to the teeth? Guy (in the gender-neutral sense), Ukraine's military was a fucking joke before 2014. You remember what happened in 2014? Russia invaded and annexed a good sixth of the country. If Russia didn't want a heavily armed thorn in its side, it shouldn't have given Ukraine, which had shown no desire to challenge Russia, a reason to become heavily armed.

Or do you think the alternative of letting Russia take yearly bites out of Ukraine as it proclaims that Ukraine isn't a real nation and Ukrainians don't exist is viable?

I dont think those weird nazi militant groups should be branded as ‘war heroes’ by people (READ : US Media), but there’s proportionally so few of them that calling all Ukrainian armed forces nazis is factually incorrect

Man, the neonazi paramilitaries haven't been a factor since late 2015.

I also dont think that punishing the population of Russia (who, by and whole, are innocent) with economic sanctions will do ANYTHING to benefit the goodwill between countries, and will only solidify any current deals with China/NK that the ‘West’ seem to hate them having

The economic sanctions are important in reducing Russia's ability to replenish its industrial and military capacity and has had strong effects in reducing the quality of Russian refurbished tanks and reducing the number of missiles they can produce and lob into Ukrainian hospitals each month.

[+] VonCesaw -28 points 1 year ago (4 children)

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

and the moment they actually stop and declare peace, the US and EU will seek to tear the rest of their government apart and try to start a civil war, like they’ve done at least 15 times they got involved in a conflict in the last 23 years

what

Dont get me wrong, Ukraine should have the right to defend itself and its borders from violent invasion. But IMO if they’d joined the EU prior, they wouldnt be scrambling to gather the monetary and political resources to defend itself, and the fact that the US and EU started giving them more than their entire GDP in weapons and aid merely weeks after kind of reeks of proxy war

What the fuck do you think Ukraine had been trying to do before the war? And 'reeks of proxy war'? Is that what you call it when a country is invaded without provocation and supported by countries which think that maybe returning to the 19th century way of doing things might not be great for international stability? And more than their entire GDP?

Jesus Christ. As someone who was accidentally correct once said

Ukraine is one of those messy topics nobody ill-informed should like touching tbh

[+] VonCesaw -24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Any predictions at this point are nothing more than wild speculation. Fuck's sake, Putin's personal caterer led a mercenary coup attempt on Moscow. How firm or how weak Putin's grip on power is in light of absurdities like that is an absolute mystery to all of us on here. Hell, might be a mystery to the powers that be, and even Putin himself.

The West attempted desperately to keep economic ties with Russia open until it was apparent that the war would not end quickly; the idea that the decisionmakers in our governments are drooling at the prospect of Russia falling apart and cratering trade for the next decade instead of desiring a quick return to normality is just... not in-line with the historic priorities of the post Cold-War West.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

and the moment they actually stop and declare peace, the US and EU will seek to tear the rest of their government apart and try to start a civil war, like they’ve done at least 15 times they got involved in a conflict in the last 23 years

If that were true, it would have been a good reason not to invade a neighbor.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

and the moment they actually stop and declare peace, the US and EU will seek to tear the rest of their government apart and try to start a civil war

No, no they would NOT. The West hates Russia atm, but it's a single entity that they can somewhat parley with. The absolute last thing the West wants is the worlds largest nuclear stockpile being split haphazardly between warring factions.

[+] [email protected] -33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is a very easy solution to that, available exclusively to Russia.

Not really. While only Russia can revert troops and say "oh you know we were wrong, we remove every soldier and pay reparations forever and ever, we're deeply sorry, never again", this is obviously not going to happen.

Russia did suggest many, many peace talks, and it never yielded anything, with Ukrainian side outright refusing further diplomacy. Yes, concessions have to be made to reach peace, but the peace is entirely possible, and Russia doesn't mind it.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago

Not really. While only Russia can revert troops and say “oh you know we were wrong, we remove every soldier and pay reparations forever and ever, we’re deeply sorry, never again”, this is obviously not going to happen.

Yes, it is indeed obvious that Russia has no intention of withdrawing its troops or willingly vacated occupied Ukrainian land, or respect Ukrainian sovereignty.

Russia did suggest many, many peace talks, and it never yielded anything, with Ukrainian side outright refusing further diplomacy. Yes, concessions have to be made to reach peace, but the peace is entirely possible, and Russia doesn’t mind it.

Did you not follow the peace talks at the time? Fuck, do you not remember Zelenskyy's initial offering of peace terms?