after St. Louis police unions instructed officers to publicly display The Punisher's insignia (the mark of a lawless, fascist murderer) the comic book community was quick to point out the stupidity, and the frankly horrifying message sent by supposed peace officers endorsing a maniac. So it's a good thing The Punisher personally confirms he hates cops who see him as a friend… making every cop who "wears his mark" or calls themselves a "fan" look like shameful fool in the process.
-- Andrew Dyce, The Punisher Confirms: He HATES Cops Who Support Him
The punisher is a murdering lawless maniac but I don't think he's a fascist, is he?
Punisher 2099 was fascist (Wouldn't kill cops, and became part of Doom 2099's regime when he took over America.) but Frank Castle Punisher (A.k.a. the one we know.)? Pretty much equal opportunity murderer of criminals and baddies.
I don't think that makes him fascist, just a broken person with twisted morals attempting to do good (in his mind). IIRC, he makes no attempt to push his morals beyond himself.
In fact, doesn't he specifically tell people not to be like him?? That's very much NOT fascie behavior.
Idk, a lot of fascist ideology revolves around a single person being able to save society via strength and commitment. Instead of society being able to enact meaningful changes through the proper means, we need someone who can cut through the bureaucracy and just take out the "bad guys".
Unfortunately a lot of western writing reinforces the belief that individual greatness can overcome even the most difficult situations. This isn't saying that all western authors are fascist, rather that most of the stories we tell require a first person perspective for us to resonate with it.
This is why the most popular propaganda films in Nazi Germany weren't films like triumph of the will, but instead were films like The Lives of a Bengal Lancer and Gabriel Over the Whitehouse.
I mean, isn't that literally why he tells people to not be like him?
I think he was created to point at that exact issue.
I think it highlights the difficulty of attempting to profit from attempting to satire fascism. The people who understand nuance aren't typically the crowd that needs to be reminded that fascism is bad, and the people who do need that reminder are so often selectively deaf to nuance that conflict with their ideology.
Punisher may have started as satire on fascism, but over the years there are going to be authors who are going to asses the importance of that aspect of the character differently. Some are going to take the original message to heart and make it the centerpiece of the story, others are just going to use it as a set piece to get to the vengeance and violence.
Over time the character turns from the cautionary tale of an antihero, to a piece of intellectual property used to sell stickers to chuds. Unfortunately the author has very little control of how people interpret their work.
See the entire collection of Warhammer lore.
lindsay ellis has a great video about satirizing fascism
https://youtu.be/62cPPSyoQkE?si=Tg4myY8XmQ0HySyF
I assume they mean "murderer of fascists?"
Has he ever been portrayed in comics killing fascists?
I do remember this one future one-off comic where he killed a bunch of rich pricks and politicians who even had a small repopulation program going, because they were the ones responsible for armageddon.
Rather than let them live and continue humanity, he killed them all for the crime of destroying it. Then he walked into the fire, ending his own life.
I'm not a big comic guy but I thought then and now that that was the perfect punisher story.
He did the only thing he knew how to do, to kill. a thing that definitely helped no one except for himself, then with no one else to punish he burned literally in the fire he was consumed with all his life.
That's poetry.
Sounds like The Punisher: The End which starts with him in NY State Prison for his vigilantism when nuclear war breaks out.
I haven't actually read any Punisher, but it sounded more plausible than The Punisher being fascist
I haven't read a lot, but it would be interesting to see how corporate comics would write an 'antifa' Punisher. They would absolutely slander the movement, like with the Joker (Johann Most + L'Homme qui rit), the Flag Smasher, or Anarky. But it would still be a curious read.
Red Skull, Dr. Doom, and Hatemonger II, though the first two weren't mainline continuity.
Holy shit, Hatemonger II's weapon is a "Hate Ray" and he uses it on the Punisher to make him kill an antifascist Journalist! Punisher takes the assignment not because he hates fascists, but because they're infringing on Captain America's brand 🤣
A fascist is someone who supports a single strong leader with total control of the nation. 'Dictator' was an actual position in the Roman Republic; the people could vote to give one man absolute power for a period of time. Makes sense if you're dealing with a natural disaster or invasion and don't have time to go through the usual channels. Fascism became popular in the chaos of the post WW1 era. Things were changing rapidly, and conservatives wanted to rein in the 'undesirables.' Ironically, the Communist Russian Revolution was a huge spur to the creation of numerous fascist parties across Europe.
Frank Castle, the Punisher, is not a fascist. He isn't interested in taking power for himself, and doesn't want a dictator. He often speaks of having the greatest respect for Captain America, the guy who always chooses the side of liberty and fair play. Frank knows that he's a criminal and a murderer. He just doesn't care. IMHO if he and the Joker were both locked up and unable to kill each other, the two would get along fine.
The Batman Punisher crossover has what you're looking for. Bats stops Frank from ventilating Joker's forehead.
If I was a particularly malicious comics writer I would make that the crossover universe the Injustice universe.
I want Mark Hamill Joker and Brad Garrett as Frank. BTW I've see Brad in person, and he's a giant. Would have been perfect for Jack Reacher, instead of the pretty boy they used.
Stares at the camera sadly
Jim-faces
Conversation? He's not Batman. Frank Castle would straight up annihilate Joker.
Even captain america does plenty of fascist things mate, Punisher is definitely very close to fascism by the mere fact that he represents someone who thinks they are above the law and they know better and that they can deliver their version of justice.
Of course that alone doesn't make him fascist, but the things superheroes are portrayed doing nowadays are very much things fascists like.
Id recommend checking out this excellent video from Folding Ideas for example
https://youtu.be/xLUvR8zKbh0?si=H-cHenS9AfuXbJiW
I don't really see how he could be construed as one, other than the kneejerk "fascism is when bad things".
The whole point is that he's not like cops.
How fascist he is depends on who is writing him. His symbol is literally a stylized Nazi totenkopf, and while he has never voiced support for totalitarian leaders, his solution to crime - escalating the violence - is consistent with fascist ideology.
Associating his symbol with that is a huge stretch.
Stretch? Gerry Conway, the original author, planned the character to use the totenkopf, and the artist re-worked the symbol.
Oh wow, I didn't know that. I simply meant that they look nothing alike other than being skulls.
People used skulls as a symbol of death long before the Nazis.
I don't see the relation? Not all skull motifs are a totenkopf.
Seems like they specifically changed it in Pre production