politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
view the rest of the comments
I’m a pastor and I can tell you that modern theology on abortion was largely fabricated in the late 70’s and early 80’s.
Even the Southern Baptist Convention, one of the largest Evangelical denominations called abortion a “distinctly Catholic issue”. The cause for the change of consensus between 1973 and 1977, but the point being the largest pro-life organization in America took years to become outraged. If the Bible were as clear cut as they pretend, then they should have been marching on day 1.
What does the Bible say about abortion? The only time it discusses it is in Numbers 5:11-31, known as the Drought of Bitter Waters. Essentially if a husband suspects his wife is pregnant due to an affair, a priest administers a drink of bitter waters. There’s some debate over whether this drink is legitimately harmful and God supernaturally protects the innocent or it is perfectly harmless and God supernatural punishes the guilty, but it doesn’t really matter as the result is the same: The termination of the pregnancy.
If a fetus is a fully developed human life, then an innocent is being executed for the crimes of another. That’s a pretty horrific conclusion, but that’s obviously not the perspective of the audience of the day.
So how did the Biblical audience view the notion of when life began?
This gets a little tricky as we’re essentially asking when does a person have a soul. For much of the European church history, this moment was called ensoulment and happened when the mother first felt the cold kick. This specific moment was also known as the quickening. Most evangelicals now argue that ensoulment happens at the moment of conception.
The problem is that ensoulment isn’t actually a Christian idea at all, rather it’s Greek and Roman. Unfortunately, a lot of how Christian’s think isn’t due to the Bible but because of a rather interesting fella named Plotinus and his philosophy known as neo-platonism.
Speaking broadly, in neo-platonism, the soul is the true essence of a person and it is immortal and eternal. The soul inhabits a body and lives a life of good or evil that determines its eternal destination, heaven or hell.
Sound familiar?
In Judaism and therefore Christianity, people don’t have an immortal soul. You will find no verse in the Bible that discusses an eternal spiritual essence. The Bible explicitly notes that we were forbidden the tree of eternal life.
Jews did not believe in going to heaven when you die, they believed in a blessed hope known as the resurrection of the dead. A time when all who died would arise again to face judgment, the righteous would never taste death again and the world would be set to rights.
Even in Jesus’s day, this wasn’t a universally held belief, however. The Pharisees held to the resurrection, while the Sadducees believed that death was final and permanent.
But the words Soul and Spirit occur all throughout the Bible, you may be thinking. Yes, but that’s more an artifact of translation and cultural appropriation. In Hebrew, spirit is “ruach” and can be translated roughly as breath or wind. Soul is “nephesh” and literally means throat.
In Jewish thought, and therefore Christian thought, a person becomes a living being when they breathe.
The real kicker in all this is that the church rejected a lot of Jewish thought and leaned into Greek and Roman thought because of antisemitism.
The best argument for the Southern Baptist Convention’s pivot on this issue? Probably racism as well. Integration in public schools caused a massive surge in private Christian schools, which could segregate under the guise of religious liberty.
While the Supreme Court ultimately decided against Bob Jones University in the early 80’s, it was only after a 13 year battle with the IRS and lower courts. By the late 70’s, it became clear that the final bastion of racial segregation, Christian education, was going to fall.
Racism had been a hugely potent force for turning out evangelicals to vote and with these final court cases, the voting block was no longer motivated or unified. Abortion was one of several issues workshopped by Jerry Falwell and lesser-known, but not less-influential, Paul Weyrich and first floated in the 1978 midterms with tremendous success.
It finally became an issue with national attention in 1980 and the theology of life beginning at conception was largely solidified in place.
All that to say, if you want to believe life begins at conception, that’s fine. But you can’t pretend that’s ever been a commonly held perspective. Throughout much of church history it was the quickening and when the Bible was written, it was almost certainly at first breath.
Interesting, pastor W.A. Criswell, the former president of the southern baptist convention agreed with that notion in 1974. “I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person,” Criswell declared, “and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed.”