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Zelenskyy calls on partners to create legal framework for transferring Russian assets to Ukraine (www.pravda.com.ua)

submitted 11 months ago by Stamau123 to c/world

59 comments fedilink hide all child comments

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has called on Ukraine’s partners to create a legal framework for the use of frozen Russian assets to support Ukraine.

Source: Volodymyr Zelenskyy on X (Twitter)

Quote: "The decision to use frozen Russian assets to support Ukraine will be an entirely just and legitimate response to Russia's aggression against Ukraine. It will send the right message to all would-be aggressors around the world: attacking another state does not pay off; it makes the aggressor pay. I encourage partners to move quickly on relevant legal frameworks. This year, we must achieve tangible progress toward using frozen Russian assets for the benefit of Ukraine. We firmly rely on G7 leadership on this matter."

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[–] Viking_Hippie 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah.. I of course 100% want Ukraine to win the war, but this is a bad precedent to set if any of the frozen assets are from civilians who aren't aiding or even APPROVE OF Putin's war crimes. .

If Ukraine can just confiscate civilian Russian funds that have been frozen, what's to stop Israel from taking the money of Gazan or Lebanese civilians? Or even Iranian ones?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What's stopping them now?

Freezing assets is generally used as diplomatic leverage. When there is no more leverage to be had, seizure follows. In WW2, the Western Allies seized the assets of foreign nationals deemed too close to the governments of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

[–] Viking_Hippie 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

What's stopping them now?

The fact that they don't have access to them. I don't know exactly how frozen assets work, but I'm 99% certain that hostile or even neutral governments don't just get to spend them as if they were their own.

In WW2, the Western Allies seized the assets of foreign nationals deemed too close to the governments of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

And the Western Allies also carpet bombed the civilians of the Dresden city center with incendiary bombs and needlessly dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan. Just because the right side of a war does something doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

The fact that they don’t have access to them. I don’t know exactly how frozen assets work, but I’m 99% certain that hostile or even neutral governments don’t just get to spend them as if they were their own.

Laws are like Calvinball - it's made up as you go along, and only the willingness of other parties to humor you is what sustains it. In the case of nations that are outright hostile to one another, only the balance of power and the perceived likelihood of a return to normal relations prevents seizures. As Russia has seized Western property in the country, we can't be accused of firing the first metaphorical shot - as the money is proposed to go directly to Ukraine's war effort, there's little room for serious accusations of opportunistic profiteering.

And the Western Allies also carpet bombed the civilians of the Dresden city center with incendiary bombs and needlessly dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan. Just because the right side of a war does something doesn’t necessarily make it the right thing to do.

Straying away from the wider issue of terror bombing and the atomic bombings, my point is that there is precedent for this behavior. It's not new or unheard of, it's not opening Pandora's Box. It's what countries that are openly hostile to each other with little hope for reconciliation do.

[+] Viking_Hippie -8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

As Russia has seized Western property in the country, we can't be accused of firing the first metaphorical shot

Ah yes, the "he did the bad thing so I get to do the same" school of ~~kindergarten~~ statecraft 🙄

as the money is proposed to go directly to Ukraine's war effort, there's little room for serious accusations of opportunistic profiteering.

Yeah, PROPOSED to. You think that the Ukrainian government has magically become the picture of efficiency and free of corruption? Hell, even if not a single kopek is used on anything but the war efforts, who's to say that there's not going to be graft there, like there is in every war?

my point is that there is precedent for this behavior. It's not new or unheard of, it's not opening Pandora's Box.

Is that why you had to go back 80 years to find an example involving it being done to the most uncontroversally evil empire in the history of humanity? Because it's such a regular thing that countries routinely do in case of hostility?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

Ah yes, the “he did the bad thing so I get to do the same” school of kindergarten statecraft 🙄

I'm not saying it as a "He did it so I get to do it too!" excuse, I'm saying it as a point that it can't be reasonably seen as unprovoked.

Yeah, PROPOSED to. You think that the Ukrainian government has magically become the picture of efficiency and free of corruption? Hell, even if not a single kopek is used on anything but the war efforts, who’s to say that there’s not going to be graft there, like there is in every war?

I'm not saying there's not going to be any corruption or graft with all money sent to Ukraine. I'm saying that accusations of the countries seizing the money simply profiteering become significantly weaker when the money is not actually going to the country that is seizing the money.

Is that why you had to go back 80 years to find an example involving it being done to the most uncontroversally evil empire in the history of humanity? Because it’s such a regular thing that countries routinely do in case of hostility?

Libya is the most recent war where asset seizure occurred by Western countries that I can think of. Iraq before that. I believe Vietnam and North Korea didn't have their assets tied up in US-friendly countries.

[–] Maco1969 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Britain bombed Dresden for three days, Germany used incendiary bombs in London, Coventry and Birmingham for three years.

[–] Viking_Hippie 3 points 11 months ago

Yeah, because "nazis did worse" is a great fucking excuse for crimes against humanity 🙄