this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
2066 points (93.8% liked)
Political Memes
5520 readers
1995 users here now
Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Seriously, "vote for 90% Hitler or 'only' 60% Hitler"
If people keep on rejecting the > 60% Hitler party, then the only possible attack from < 60% which will arise.
If people keep oscillating between the two then nothing will ever change because that's what people actually want (or are convinced they want, which is the same).
It will change eventually, possibly once the country collapses into full-on fascism at this rate like Germany did.
Edit: Also, people obviously don't want 60-90% Hitler. The system is just designed to gradually shift to the right no matter what; not really a democracy.
Wow. You get it. Howdy 🤠
60m voted for Trump - these are not small numbers, it is in fact what a very large minority of people want.
Germany only reversed course because it lost a world war, that's unlikely to happen to the US any time soon or ever. North Korea, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia etc have immovable autocracies. So pretty sure your best bet is not let the country go down the Russian kleptocracy path or it's anyone's guess if you'll ever get to vote again in a way that touches the edges or how low your quality of life and freedom of expression will go.
And what is your argument?
The US lost in Vietnam. It can happen.
I don't even think Bush reached 60% Hitler if Trump is only 90%. Being a fool must be easier when you construct your own reality. 🤷♀️
That's a shallow view. Bush was more like Hitler than Trump in some ways, but far less so in others. Bush was more imperialistic than Trump, using NATO and western allies to dominate the globe. Trump distances himself from NATO and western allies, weakening the power of the American empire.
However, Bush didn't oppose the legislature like Trump, didn't oppose modernity like Trump, and didn't actually oppose the liberal world order. He was everything evil about liberalism, which was close to fascism by several measures.
However, (this will probably blow your mind) fascism is inherently anti-liberal. It's anti-communist like liberalism, but it also opposes key facets of liberal capitalism. Liberalism values property rights and market based economies, but while a fascist government will try to keep the owning class on their side, they'll void any right or principle to support the greater movement.
Some people claim fascists are still liberals because they deregulate and lower taxes, but they're not. Older Republicans and their donors often clash with Trumpians if you actually pay attention. Trump and his allies want to shut down the government, but "moderate" Republicans don't.
The recent shenanigans in the House of Representatives have been an effort by the more fascist Republicans to purge any members who listen to the donors over the party. The US defaulting or shutting down hurts the US economy at all levels, so the owners oppose shut downs or defaults. However, the loyal fascists are fine with wrecking the economy because people wrongly believe that the president controls it. Biden and the federal establishment would get blamed for the economy, suppressing Biden voters more than Trump's base.
You don't understand fascism because you assume all politicians that empower the owning class are the same. Fascists aren't just spicy liberals. Fascists don't value capitalism as much as their own power. They'll use capitalism and try to appeal to capitalists, but it only has instrumental value. Capitalists don't like fascists because they're bad for business, but they support them over liberals willing to regulate and raise taxes.
I assumed this is how you would view things. Liberalism does decay into fascism, but fascism is not liberal. Capitalists prefer neoliberalism to fascism because fascism is bad for business. Fascists leaders have their own goals which often clash with what's economically efficient and maximizes the power of owners.
Capitalists want there to be no regulations and few taxes, but that inevitably causes societal instability and the rise of populist movements. They support fascism to distract from socialism as a solution for exploited workers, but if those fascists gain power, they have coercive control that the capitalists in liberal democracies can't beat.
The whole point of capitalism is to have the state protect your property for you (as an owner), but the state needs to be powerful to actually keep it safe in the modern era. Liberalism tries to keep the state as small as possible, but fascists aren't incentivized to do that. They'll take your property far more easily. If you go against them, they control the cops. In a large federation like the US, you can't even buy off the local government to oppose the fed. Even if you could divide the military regionally, you couldn't win because modern war is too devastating.
For decades, capitalists have tried to empower themselves, but their greed fuels the destruction of the very system they exist in. Fascist governments sideline them unless they themselves lead it. However, they also create new opportunities for war by empowering nationalism. The rise in nationalism threatens regional war which threatens the leaders of those regions.
Essentially, capitalists support fascists who cause instability which hurts capitalists. Capitalists are stupid, thinking they can squeeze people and countries indefinitely, but they forget the number 1 rule of economics. There's no such thing as a free lunch. They try to suppress direct worker revolutions, but instead get war, governments that don't listen to them, and create a more dangerous world.
Liberalism is not capitalism, it is the favored government of capitalists and is fundamentally unstable because people are too dangerous to exploit indefinitely.