this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2023
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This segment was sort of a let down, because the same lies about reusable rockets were repeated without researching them apparently. Some of musk's most agreed upon accomplishments were achieved 30-40 years ago, but people on TV can't help but give him the accolades.
Also not much digging into the Starlink for Ukraine debacle, or the fact that he didn't actually donate all that hardware, didn't donate the service, and it wasn't being used in nearly the capacity initially reported because the people receiving the units were happy to bullshit for him as long as they got gear to use.
What are the lies here? Cause, I tell you what, those rockets sure seem reusable
He didn't create the first reusable rockets, his company didn't pioneer reusable rockets, and yet the lie keeps being repeated.
The piece starts with saying that SpaceX just streamlined old NASA technology, that seems to cover your specific complaint here. Did you watch it?
I did, but it seems you didn't watch the whole thing. I suggest watching it fully, then coming back.
I assert that neither of you watched it. In fact, nobody's seen it but me
I assert that I didn't watch it - "This content is not available in your country".
Do you mind providing additional info on previous reusable rockets. I'm not able to find any successfully reused rockets prior to the Falcon 9.
Edit: The space shuttle doesn't count as a reusable rocket.
Edit 2: Humanity as only achieved partial reusability so far. SpaceX will likey be the first to achieve full reusability with their Starship. Of course credit for this should not go to Elon but to Gwynne Shotwell and the rest of the SpaceX team.
I love it when you musk simps come through and do this bullshit.
You must have missed the part of my post where I give credit to Shotwell, but just so it's crystal clear I think Elon is a loser who has stolen his success from the intelligent people who work for him.
Now if you would be so kind as to answer my original question, since I am genuinely curious.
Shotwell is a liar for Musk and just as culpable as him for SpaceX's marketing liberties.
As for your first (easily researched) question.
First fully private space transport company- OTRAG in 1975
First government "spin-out" Arianespace in 1980
First commercial rocket- Conestoga in 1982
First commercially successful rocket- Pegasus from Orbital Sciences Corporation founded in 1982, IPO in 1990. First Pegasus launch in 1990.
First fully vertically integrated (business) commercial rocket company - Beal Aerospace in 1997
Space Vector was working on DARPA FALCON in 2002 as Musk was looking for staff. Perhaps this is where the name came from?
The reason most companies started focusing on expendable vehicles again was NSDD 42 issued by Reagan in 1982 requesting expendable launch vehicles from suppliers. There was also the issue of needing to launch maximum payload, which made carrying fuel for recovery a non-starter.
Lockheed performed a study on reusability in the 1960s to see if it was economically feasible to reuse launch vehicles for everything from a space station to a moon base. So this idea was not new, not unknown, and not experimented with.
The ROMBUS study from 1964 demonstrated the potential to have reusable orbital modules and shuttles. Launches would use a modular vertical takeoff and landing (stop me when this sounds familiar) system. ROMBUS's design reads basically like Starship, and it's from 1964.
SpaceX has failed by their own benchmark to have a commercially viable reusable vehicle, since their refit times are still three weeks and they can't recover fairings or upper stages still. There's no cost justification to do this, so it's an obvious priority to cancel.
Resuable Vehicles
Were all of them viable? No. Is SSTO a fool's errand? Yes. Is full recovery necessary for lost costs? No. Was SpaceX the first full recovery of the lower stage(s)? No.
If Shuttle doesn't count as a reusable vehicle, then neither is Starship. Shuttle actively contributed to launch with its own engines and the external tank.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing this very specialized knowledge which would have been very time consuming for me to research myself.
Took all of 10 minutes to find if you steer clear of Musk Marketing Enterprises. Space history didn't start in 2006, and documenting space history is a serious past time for some seriously dedicated people. They're a resource all of us can use.
Why are you being such a ass hole just anwser the question - you're probably a grown ass man acting like a little child. All he wants to do is understand your point, no need to be so cynical about it.
You tried hard to White knight but you fell off your horse. You should try reading before commenting, because I did answer the question, and he said thanks.
Take your poor reading comprehension elsewhere.
I'm actually pleased with it.
Again, I don't agree with all of it. In fact, the SpaceX stuff could have easily segue into the ESGHound issues. IE: The old lady's house who is within a few miles of there because SpaceX rockets are far too large for the land allocated (ex: wildlife sanctuary with dozens of endangered creatures + even humans living close enough to the launch site who have been filing noise complaints).
Elon Musk has stomped over the little people so incredibly that there's no comparison. Somehow, I do think he's gone above-and-beyond the typical billionaire in terms of callousness to little people... while John Oliver is kind-of just trying to sell it as typical billionaire crap. No man, its much worse.
Still, this is the first major talk show that has actually talked about the Elon Musk problem. Taking a hard look at something that clearly has been getting worse over the past year (especially). Sure, we at RealTesla have known about this for nearly the past decade and know far worse examples of everything here (Really? OSHA complaints are the worst John Oliver could come up with at the Gigafactory? Nothing about the "Plantation" suit that Tesla just lost?). But its enough to get people's eyes open to the real harm Elon Musk is doing, and this is all a good conversation starter.
Our arguments here at RealTesla are much better / more appreciated thanks to John Oliver's video. So yes, its ultimately net good (as this John Oliver video sometimes puts Elon Musk, lol).
I certainly understand that even if they knew all of the Musk BS and scams, they need to ease the general public that does know who Musk is into realizing he's a dipshit. You can't just come over the top rope and say this guy that's in the press all the time is a moron and here's 30 minutes describing why. So, choosing their battles no doubt.
I liked the segment as a whole, as you can see from the fact I only had two criticisms of it. So I'm not really saying I didn't like it, just that it could have been more researched. I'm just disappointed that they repeat the same musk lies we continuously see repeated. It lends them credence, and as you see in the comments below people completely believe that SpaceX is the first commercial space company, first reusable rocket, first vertical landing rocket, all the bullshit we know FOR. A. FACT. is a lie. But because Musk's marketing machine makes people repeat it online, these people fall for it not realizing what they're doing.
I'm very happy that Rolling Stone, WaPo, NY Times, and Last Week Tonight are exposing Musk for the liar he is. And I have no doubt this is the first of many segments we'll see over the next several years exposing fraud, deceptive practices, bilking world governments out of untold billions, and who knows what else.