this post was submitted on 16 Dec 2023
67 points (85.3% liked)
Programming
17313 readers
311 users here now
Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!
Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.
Hope you enjoy the instance!
Rules
Rules
- Follow the programming.dev instance rules
- Keep content related to programming in some way
- If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos
Wormhole
Follow the wormhole through a path of communities [email protected]
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
"Capabilities" is the new "Functional Programming" of decades prior,
Scala is also expanding in this area via the Caprese project: https://docs.scala-lang.org/scala3/reference/experimental/cc.html and it promises Safe Exceptions, Safe Nullability, Safe Asynchronicity in direct style/without the "what color is your function" dilemma, delineation of pure vs impure functions, … even Rust's borrow checker (and memory guarantees) becomes a special case of Capabilities.
I believe this is a major paradigm shift, but the ergonomics have yet to be figured out and be battle-tested in the real world. Ultimately, like for Functional Programming Languages (OCaml, F#, Haskell, …) I don't expect pionniers like Unison/Koka/Scala to ever become mainstream, but the "good parts" to be ported to ever the more complex and clunky "general purpose" programming languages (or, why I love Scala which is multiparadigm and still very thin/clean at its core).
It's not really fair to state that functional languages aren't battle tested or imply they aren't useful in real world problem solving, Erlang/Elixir prove that.
Yup, I never said that, though? What I was about was to draw a parallel between functional programming languages and explorations from several decades ago vs the new languages and explorations going into effect typing/capabilities programming now (and the long way ahead for those).
What I find interesting is that those pioneering FP languages never came to top the popularity chart, implying that I'm not expecting Unison to be different (but the good parts might make it into Java/C#/Python/… many years from now).
All good, that was just how your comment read to me.
Sorry if it came that way :)
I think that when it comes to functional programming with effect systems, unison is currently the closest to showing how it is actually done. Koka and languages like Effekt are of course very nice, but they don't show much going for them besides the example nondeterminism and exception effect. Verse, that language that was going to be used as Fortnite's scripting language, also plans on adding these effect systems a la Koka.
Overall, I think one of 2 things will happen:
What makes you say that? As far as I'm aware, even the theoretical soundness of it isn't a done deal (this is a harder nut to crack than e.g. rust's borrow checker)
In this niche, perhaps, I don't believe any of those will gain mainstream adoption (though I hope I'm wrong)