Conservative
A place to discuss pro-conservative stuff
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They haven't failed. They need advanced firepower and continued support. Putin from the start is relying on you lot sticking a spoke in the gears, and unsurprisingly conservatives are lining up to do his bidding.
You have a golden opportunity to boost US businesses (most Ukraine aid never leaves the US); hammer a rival, hostile nation; and prevent further encroachment on your allies. Further, all this comes at zero cost of US lives.
Or you could let Putin win.
Conservatives are sabotaging Ukraine's efforts by not giving them every thing they need right now? That is a very entitled attitude.
The question is how much does funding a proxy war against Russia help the US. For some the bemifits have outweighed the costs, for others it is a holy crusade and no cost is too great.
I fully support Ukraine, but at some point, you have to say they are up shit creek. They lost the counter-offensive, we can't keep up with their demand for ammunition. If they keep at this rate, they will collapse. If China were to invade Taiwan or North Korea to invade South Korea, we wouldn't be able to put up a solid defense since we have given away so much ammo.
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2023-03-29/milley-us-has-long-way-to-go-to-build-munitions-stockpile
The counter-offensive failed. They did not re-claim any real amount of territory. They need a lot of things but it isn't our job to keep supplying them. We are putting our own country at risk by depleting our stockpiles.
and who is you lot? I clearly stated I support Ukraine but there is a certain point you have to say if this continues, Ukraine is going to collapse. The US has publically stated they believe the losses are about 1:1. That means Ukraine is a lot worse off than Russia if this continues.
At some point you have to say it's not worth the money we are spending and exposing our sensitive technology to hostile nations.
Can I see your source for that?
Categorically untrue. It's certainly stalled, in large part because Russia was allowed the time to dig in deeply, as Ukraine was drip-fed the arms and ammo they desperately needed. You can't use the fact that Ukraine has not been properly supplied as reasoning to stop supplying them completely.
Again, most of the 'aid money' stays in your country. The money you are 'spending' is enriching US businesses and creating jobs. Further, the 'sensitive technology' is almost exclusively stockpiled weaponry that, if unused, would need to be binned eventually.
Leaving weapons gathering dust until they're not usable in case someone discovers how they work is utter lunacy. They were made to be used, and even better, you don't have to lift a finger as Ukrainian soldiers are the ones risking their lives.
Putin will not stop at Ukraine. The global system of order is at stake. The US looks pretty weak right now, and it's all thanks to conservatives (that's who I mean by 'you lot', I presume you're a conservative since you're posting anti-Ukraine material to a conservative group).
If you genuinely support Ukraine, then you'd support properly arming them so they can defend their country from a nation that's hostile to both them AND you. Russia has ratfucked your election system, ratfucked your congress and senate, interfered with your democracy (such as it is), as well as mine and many other countries. You should be gunning to get at them, not bending over backwards to do their bidding. Which is what you're doing by blocking funding for Ukraine.
In what fucking universe does Russia have that much military capabilities? They arguably only barely had it at the height of the ussr, let alone today
Putin isn't the only threat to global stability. I didn't say 'Russia will conquer the world'. Think.
What message does it send to countries like China (vs Taiwan who are crucial for chip manufacturing) when the USA is too weak to counter Russia?
China would have to be insane to invade Taiwan, us involvement or not.
Lmao good to know you're entirely divorced from reality
Remind me again, which USA political party sent a bunch of their senators to Moscow on Independance Day? Was it the one you vote for?
We don’t vote for parties. We vote for people. What senator from Oregon went to Moscow?
Right now I can't see China invading. They would destroy everything they want to keep. China could win the war, but that would be a pyrrhic victory.
Exactly. China stands to gain basically nothing from an invasion. Taiwan has naturally defensible terrain, and the only thing they have of value is the semiconductor industry, which would be destroyed in the war. And both the optics and casualties would absolutely suck for China and ruin their reputation hard.
That and China have never shown great competence in using their military. I suspect they are a paper tiger.
Don't worry. We will get the Democrats out before they weaken us to much more. All the whining they did about defense spending has allowed Ukraine to hold Russia off for two years. Had the Republicans not spent the money, Ukraine would have fallen after a week.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/republican-us-senator-blocks-more-military-nominations-citing-abortion-policy-2023-11-09/
You got the wrong guys.
That isn’t weakening our military. Most of the paper pushers at top are pure political and do more harm than good. Milley did a lot of damage with his woke bullshit
The army is diverse by nature and has a purpose. It isn’t to preach woke values. They can’t figure out why recruiting is down when they attack the people most likely to join.
It must be nice to be able to pick and choose facts.
What you served, how often did you talk to those people? How much value did they provide you ?
https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-russia-death-toll-questions-bakhmut-counteroffensive-1800947
It is categorically true. The counter-offensive has failed. There is no way to spin it otherwise. They did not achieve their military objective before winter. That is a failure. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/11/us/politics/us-ukraine-war-strategy.html
Russia attacks your country in many ways, not just with troops. Do you know what asymmetric warfare means?
Your 'source' for 1:1 figure is a leaked, unverified document?
The one to one was a comment from general Milley.
And we do the same to Russia.
It is blatantly obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Gotta toe the party line though right? Gotta support dear leader and repeat whatever they feed you.
Sure, show me where I am wrong.
And don't make personal attacks. Stick to the topic.
People already have rebutted, you're just going to argue with the bullshit you got from GOP/Russian propogandists.
Nobody has rebutted. They’ve whined. I’ve cited my claims.
So what do you think I’m inaccurate about old sport since unliked you. I’ve cited my claims
You have not cited sources for all your claims. And Newsweek is not a reliable source for military analysis. So do yourself a favor and don't try to use them for your other claims.
Which claim do you think is not supported? Newsweek is more reliable than you. So cite away. All you have done so far is babble, try to be partisan, and try to insult. Be better. Use your words.
You have only posted two links for a single claim. No others. You're the one claiming to have cited your sources. So cite them. I really am not interested in trying to reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into. Your stance is clearly a partisan one. You're spewing the same BS as the mouthpieces and leadership of your party is telling you. You don't understand where the money for the military aid goes, you don't understand what we are getting for it, you don't understand the stakes of appeasement, etc....
Once again, what claim do you think is not cited? My stance isn't partisan. Either that or you are not reading my stance. Do you think supporting Ukraine is a partisan stance when you are Republican? Are you trolling because you obviously didn't read a single thing I said and just word vomited some incoherent statement that makes you look really silly.
Fair warning, do not make personal attacks. Make an argument, keep it civil, all that good stuff.