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Individuals such as this should never be given any sort of publicity.
Unfortunately we are in the age of sensationalism, and lunatics like this one are widely reported because it drives more page views and more clicks.
And she’s 21. Like, I feel, as a society, we can comfortably take any brilliance from a 21 year old as someone who has a special insight worthy of sharing, but we can also disregard any of the more outlandish shit that comes out of 21 year olds mouths. A lot of 21 year olds are brash and full of bluster. All that can be written off as immature horseshit.
Again, some are wise beyond their years, or have a decent head on their shoulders and spend their fresh adulthood wisely, doing good. They can have bright, new ideas that should be listened to…but this is not a new idea, nor is it worth reporting. Except as propaganda. Which is exactly what this article is, let’s not kid ourselves.
“Outspoken 21 year old says something horrible and outlandish!” Implied: [see what we’re up against? This particular group of HORRIBLE PEOPLE needs to be “relocated.”] Yes, what this person said was horrible. Yes, there are stupid people who are angry and using that anger inappropriately. But this does not change the current situation. An occupying force is wiping out a long-suffering people with the imperial might of the most war-hungry nations and capitalist enterprises in its ear and at its back. This is not a noble endeavor because some 21 year old said something wrong, the 21 year old is wrong for saying what they said. But…so is what the state of Israel is doing to the Palestinian people. The children dying have nothing to do with this idiot. She is nothing more than convenient war machine propaganda.
This isn't an isolated incident. It's one of many posts by influencers like the Hadid sisters, Mia Khalifa, and more. She's an idiot, but she's representative example of Palestinian sentiment at the moment.
The children dying right now are the result of an unrelenting campaign of violent hate speech and teaching hatred in schools.
You can't blame the children dieing on anyone but the people responsible for actually dropping the bombs and shooting the bullets.
Violence is almost never the answer, and indiscriminate violence actually never ever is.
No one but the children are without fault in this conflict, but still far too many (more than 0) children pay the ultimate price. You can wage war without killing children, it just costs more. But if you can't pay that price then the war can't ever be considered just.
A 16 year old is a child, right? Let's look at some semi-hypotheticals and you tell me who you think is to blame:
War is hell, and it is complicated. Child soldiers will die, and there will be civilians caught in the crossfire. The is no track for this trolley that has 0 children. Any military has to balance the number of civilians killed vs the risk to its own soldiers vs the likelihood of killing their intended targets. If you expect them to sacrifice hundreds or thousands of soldiers just to avoid a few civilians, you grossly misunderstand how the world works. Most military forces will certainly be unwilling to sacrifice a single soldier for a single civilian, even on their own side.
Then Israel must be punished for their disproportionate response.
What is proportionate to the brutal murder of 1400 people, including women and children?
What is proportionate to the ongoing rocket barrages on civilians?
Seriously though - what do you think Israel would do if you were in their shoes? Would you unconditionally surrender and allow Hamas to commit genocide?
I would ask what you think is proportionate to the 10,000 dead civilians on the other side of the fence but I'm not going to do that, math is clearly not your strong suit. I hope they haunt you forever. I'm not a religious ethnostate, if I was in their shoes I would take them the fuck off.
Well killing 10,000 people is not exactly proportional. I guess technically it is since that proportion works out to 50:7.
Your copypasta is old - it's been 75 years since 1948.
You're just apologizing for war. Why? What's so good/important about war that you need to defend it? Why is it insane to expect nations to not kill civilians?
War is not a good solution and it should never be the first solution. But it exists and burying your head in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist is just naive.
By the way, every single one of those examples is real and relatively recent. Today, a 16 year old kid stabbed two border police in Jerusalem and was shot dead by a third. In May 2022, a 16 year old girl was ordered to stand next to an Israeli jeep while they were in a firefight with PIJ fighters. A 13 year old shot two people in January and was killed by one of the men he shot. There have been more than a few talking heads that have claimed the last one, but I doubt there will be any credible news reporting on it.
These are just a handful of examples from recent times. Most of them won't compare to what happens inside Gaza where the fog of war is going to be thick and intentionally so by both sides.
Legally and morally yes in amongst every country. Including Israel.
Ed: I should say according to the talmud no one is adult until 18.
Well, I can see you're not from Iran
I can only find this reference for the Talmud, which is pretty clear that it's only a recommendation to marry at 18 instead of 13
We're not talking about Iran.
The law in Israel civilly is 18, the rest is fairly basic and obvious.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_d%27malkhuta_dina#:~:text='the%20law%20of%20the%20Government,be%20preferred%20to%20Jewish%20law.
Did you perhaps mean "almost"? I thought you were taking the absolutist stance that the age of majority is always 18.
How does a citation from Shulchan Arukh suddenly become "according to the Talmud"? It's literally not part of it.
Yes almost.
Talmidic interpretation matters especially those that are accepted by the majority of that group and that's ignoring the fact that religious law is second to civil law in Israel so the talmudic interpretation is supporting but not definitive, civil law is.
I see your indoctrination and raise it with Israeli racism. If you can post propaganda, I can too. Let the truth win out.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
indoctrination
Israeli
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Shut the fuck up, live in an open air concentration camp for awhile and see how you feel about the occupiers.
You forgot violent hate speech from both sides. Jewish children are indoctrinated to hate the Palestinians too.
I didn't forget the hate speech on the other side. But they don't include it in their official government sponsored school curriculum.
Wrong. And wrong.
Dude wat
The first is literal satire - it's the Israeli equivalent of SNL. Perhaps you'd prefer their take on the BBC
The second is a religious school and is clearly not a regular part of the curriculum - whereas there are plenty of examples of Palestinian hate speech in textbooks.
That’s exactly what a Palestinian would say about Zionist hate speech. You should know that’s hypocrisy. I don’t dispute the racism of the Palestinians. Do I really need to find multiple examples of Israeli’s being racist towards Palestinians? I think you and I both know they’re out there. To pretend both sides are hateful and racist to each other is disingenuous and hypocritical.
Glad we agree there are racists on both sides.
But I think you underestimate the amount of racism on the Palestinian side, and overestimate the racism on the Israeli side.
Maybe there is more on the Palestinian side. But the power dynamic is clearly in Israel’s favor. So a little racism can do so much more damage.
I understand perfectly what you’re saying. Antisemitism is a huge problem. That’s not up for debate. There are a lot of stupid people mistaking antisemitism for “pro-Palestine.” Not just anti-Israel—which is the appropriate response— but for legitimate antisemitism.
It’s like third wave feminist-come-latelies that mistake misandry for feminism. That’s not positive nor is it helpful. In fact it’s a problem in and of itself. And yes, this information/political identity literacy needs to be addressed.
BUT. The existence of stupid people does not negate the fact that there is a systematic elimination of Palestinian people by the IDF/Israeli state. You can call that a lot of names, but to avoid likening this atrocity to any historical one for cleanliness of explanation, I will stick to that description: a systematic elimination of a specific identity group from a state/territory. This is the much larger, much more immediate problem that needs to be addressed.
What complicates this issue and conflates these two issues (unnecessarily) is Israel itself, using the shield and cudgel of “antisemitism” to protect itself from MUCH NEEDED criticism and to muddy the waters of this discussion. When you put anyone on the defensive, having to fend off the label of “antisemitic” when they’re trying to criticize the Israeli state for the…well…genocide that it’s perpetrating on the Palestinian people, it furthers the decimation of the Palestinian people.
And, again, to clarify, antisemitism IS A HUGE PROBLEM. And there are a lot of political-discussion illiterates debating this issue in 140 characters or on protest signs—all without much more thought than “I need to be on the right side of this issue”—which leaves no room for the nuance of making this clarification.
Do you see what I’m saying?
There is a place for legitimate criticism of Israeli policy - but I draw the line at calling for the death of Israelis. It isn't criticism; it's just hate speech.
The problem that I'm trying to pull up here is that this is not an isolated incident of a single person posting hate speech. There is a large group of people who celebrated the events of October 7th, and are passing that hatred on to their children through education.
…you’re still not grasping my point, though. And this is the exact problem. I very clearly stated that calling for “death to Jews” or any kind of shit like that is a massive problem. Yeah, that’s antisemitic and antisemitism is wrong. It’s a problem that some people can’t differentiate between criticism of Israel and going after Jewish people. Yeah, it’s a problem and anyone with a brain agrees.
And that’s the thing right there. Amplifying the idiots that don’t know how to be anti-occupation/anti-israel without being antisemitic is propaganda. Why is there an article about this idiot making horrible statements? This article doesn’t try to discuss the nuance that I’m trying to discuss, it’s simply saying, “look at what THE ENEMY is saying! How can you NOT support Israel?!”
The Israeli govt and the lobbyists and all of the nations are all using “antisemitism” as a SHIELD against criticizing Israel/the occupation. They’re amplifying what this 21 year old is saying because it helps to turn public sentiments in favor of Israel/muddies the waters of what is happening.
It’s like the Russian propaganda amplifying the far-right/white supremacist factions in Ukraine so they can say “we invaded Ukraine to rid it of NAZIS!” Does the problem of white supremacy/far right/Nazi sympathizers exist in Ukraine? YES. But to use that as some kind of justification is beyond absurd. ANYONE WITH A BRAIN can see past it.
And ANYONE WITHOUT ULTERIOR MOTIVES won’t repeat that nonsense. The same is true of this issue. Do we need to discuss and rid the world of antisemitic sentiments? OF COURSE! The same goes for far-right/white supremacist/Nazi sympathizing.
These problems exist. They are worth putting energy into. But IN NO WAY are they justifications for the invasion/occupation happening.
Now do you see what I mean?
I posted this article because I knew it was a matter of time for someone to post the Al Jazeera article and it would lack the proper context that this is hate speech, and that the evidence is very much towards it having been written by her.
That happened by the way. I'd link it for you but I'm on mobile now.
My justification for the invasion of Gaza is the actions of Hamas on October 7th and their actions every day since then, not people writing hate speech on social media. What I'm trying to say is that there is no viable option for long term peace so long as hate speech like this exists and their educational system drills it into every single child.
Now do you see what I mean?
Hate speech will always exist. The defeat of the Nazis in WW2 didn’t end antisemitism. It didn’t even end fuckin nazism. The civil war didn’t end confederate sympathies. The fall of the USSR didn’t defeat Stalinism. The war on terror didn’t end terrorism. The war on drugs didn’t end drugs.
So to say, “I support apartheid because hate speech exists” is…genuinely insane. Wars on ideas and behaviors NEVER end the idea or the behavior. And to somehow believe that they CAN, somehow, maayybe this time! work is nothing more than either lying for ulterior motives, or you’re somehow convincing yourself.
Did the war in Afghanistan and the way in Iraq make sense because of 9/11? OF COURSE NOT. There were ulterior motives for those invasions. There are ulterior motives for this extermination. And they’re actually being perpetrated by mostly the same goddamn entities.
Let me just ask, do you now say that you support the “war on terror” and “operation Iraqi Freedom” because 9/11? If you don’t buy into that rationale, then you will have to explain to me how you could possibly be buying into this one.
—also, if I didn’t make myself clear: the bush wars bred ISIS and only served to boost Al qaeda strength/positioning. And the extermination of the Palestinian people is causing a massive surge in antisemitism. Again, as I stated in every single one of my precious comments: THIS IS WRONG, ANTISEMITISM IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE TO THIS CONFLICT. But it is very much a response. Terrorism is ALSO wrong, but the war on terror served as the greatest recruitment tool fundamentalist extremist groups ever had. So if your ultimate concern is ending antisemitic hate speech, you’re very much on the wrong side of this issue.
I think you missed the point - there can be no long term peace when either side views the other with a level of hatred that they justify killing innocent civilians and cheer that on.
This is happening on both sides, but this specific incident is a Palestinian woman who has been fed hate speech her entire life, while others around her learned it in UNRWA funded schools and turned around to murder civilians in terror attacks.
Okay…but you could literally characterize either side of this conflict that way. From a Palestinian perspective, the IDF soldiers committing war crimes by intentionally bombing schools, hospitals, and decimating entire bloodlines are perpetrating “terror attacks.” But one is state-sponsored and systematic, being perpetrated by a MUCH stronger force against an occupied peoples, while the other is a violent fundamentalist group that is funded by THE OTHER side of the normal geopolitical lines.
I don’t support Hamas. In fact, I think they’re downright despicable. But that sentiment doesn’t justify Israeli aggression.
As I said, you invoked Oct. 7 and hate speech as your reason for backing the occupation. Did anti-American sentiment and the 9/11 attacks justify the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq? Your rationale is exactly the justification for that war.
I invoked October 7th as the rationale for the war. Not the occupation. Don't twist words. It's unbecoming.
I remember 9/11 quite well. Bin Laden took too long to hunt down, in no small part because of the Iraqi distraction. Afghanistan needed to happen though. It's never been a stable country (Dr Watson's character has been an Afghanistan vet for how many centuries?), but at the time the Taliban were basically a breeding ground for terrorism, just like Gaza is today.
The propaganda on both sides is pretty heavy which is why you need to read into things - like the US running drone flights over Gaza. My assumption is they're using it to corroborate intelligence passed to them by Israel. For example, evidence that Hamas are using hospitals as military barracks, or rocket launchers in youth centers. Even if it isn't made public, the implication from the US not lifting a finger to stop them is that most of what they are saying is true enough that the US is willing to allow it.
But if your personal philosophy is that the US wants Gaza to burn then I don't think we have any common ground for discussion.
But you know that a huge part of Afghanistan’s instability is due…to foreign meddling…right?
But you missed my entire point. Those invasions BRED MORE TERRORISM. It’s been proven, over and over and over and over again that WARS AND INVASIONS against things like “terrorism,” “drugs,” “communist sympathies,” “ideals that don’t work for my foreign policy,” et al. only breed MORE of the thing you’re fighting. You’re giving it a CLEAR enemy, and are literally and figuratively lighting a fire under their asses to grow in strength, fight, and you’re giving them a very loud and clear recruitment strategy.
You know how you’re seeing A LOT of sudden antisemitism? And a lot of islamophobic thinking/acts? And fuckin PRO-HAMAS SYMPATHIES? I know you know, because you brought it up. It’s what’s started this conversation. Well, that is happening BECAUSE of the war you are supporting. You claim to be against this, when your behavior is doing nothing but supporting it’s growth.
THAT is my point.
…I mean, that’s my point, at this point, because you’ve shifted this conversation away from the things I was initially making points about. Like, you’re taking a pro-Israel stance. And I’m just taking a “but look past your preconceived biases” stance. Hink about what your position actually is. You don’t have to be anti-Israel. I’m literally just telling you that if you actually want what you claim to want, you’re essentially acting against your own interests.
That’s great. Maybe prioritize.
is this the part where I tell you that that report was made by a totally non-biased Israeli NGO who's entire modus operandi seems to be trying to discredit the UN via smear campaigns
Even if you throw out this report because of who wrote it, rather than looking at the content, there has been plenty of coverage of hate speech in Palestinian educational curriculums for many years. Even the UNHRC included references to it in their 2019 and 2023 reports. The EU was threatening to pull funding because of it.
Don't teach kids to hate.
Not sure that I would call Mia Khalifa a representative of Palestinian sentiment considering she is Lebanese. Bella Hadid has expressed sympathy for Palestinians killed as well as Israelis. Either way, the Hadids were born in the US.
The children don't right now are the result of the Israeli leaders and military killing them. It's silly to say otherwise.