this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2023
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You say that like it actually means something...
Not kill civilians is certainly a good place to start.
Okay, but what do with the terrorists?
You dodged the question
Yes sure just let me sit here and solve the global issue of terrorism. What to do about any terrorist group? This is not the only conflict where terrorists operate. If I could solve the issue of how to stop terrorists then I’d be a billionaire.
This is why it must be looked at in terms of collateral damage to avoid when hunting terrorists.
But how do you do that with certainty not a single civilian will be killed? Or do you let the terrorist act without any repercussions?
Not kill everyone there as your method of dealing with the situation. It's literally a hostage situation on multiple fronts and Israel is choosing to kill everyone, hostages included.
Blame 'the west'
Okay, fumny.
But for real, what would be a solution?
That's only a question when you conpletely ignore history and pretend that nothing happened before. Terrorist don't jsut pop up randomly. They are created by circumstances.
You shouldn't ask "what's the solution to a terrorist group embedded in a civil population". Your actual question should be "What did we do to create that problem and how could if have been prevented?". Even if you only ask that to not do the same shit again...
And in Israel's case the answer is very easy. They could have worked on peace and independence of Palestinia 30 years ago, like it was planend when the National Autority was created to gradually do that. Instead they spend more than a decade on being happy with the status quo of an occupation they don't even had to pay for as that was covered by international partners... until Hamas got a majority in 2006. Then they could have supported the peaceful government in their fight against Hamas ~15 years ago. Instead they watched cheering for Palestinians fighting other Palestinians... until Hamas controlled Gaza. And then they could have still spend more than a decade of limiting Hamas' influence. Instead it was Israel's government that used Hamas as an excuse to to show the National Authority wasn't speaking for all Palestinians and so they wouldn't need to work with them for any peace.
30 years of bullshit and then asking "what do we do about Hamas?" when the real question is "why did we create Hamas like it is today and why are we still continuing the exact same course?".
Solution? No solution, the only true focus should be blaming other people.
It very much appears it was a Hamas missile that hit the hospital.
It seems still way too early to tell. Some early reporting said there was no crater; Bellingcat is saying they can spot a crater. I read other reporting saying it could be another Islamic terrorist faction that isn’t Hamas or Hezbollah - sorry can’t remember the name.
No matter what group did this to Palestinians it is an atrocity. Hamas carried out a terrorist attack on Israeli soil, which is also an atrocity.
No civilian deserves to be injured because of where they live.
The more you repeat it, the less I believe you.
That’s such an overly simplistic solution for a complex issue, though.
Using that logic no despotic regime should ever be in power. But they are and have been and will continue to be.
The Taliban shouldn’t be back in power in Afghanistan, and Russia should just ditch Putin. People just need to read the 2nd amendment and grab their guns, gotcha.
There are a lot of non-despotic regimes that exist now because of rebellions against their former despots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revolutions_and_rebellions
It's a long fucking list. It's going to keep getting longer too,
Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it happens immediately. The people have to want it, and I honestly don't think either the Palestinians or the Israelis want to change the situation right now, they're quite content to try to annihilate each other.
If you ask the average person there, of course they'll say the other side shouldn't be hurting them, but they also aren't asking their own side to stop fighting.
Yeah... those bad Palestinians not doing anything against Hamas while they took control of Gaza... oh, wait. That's not what actually happenend.
Was Israel cracking down on Hamas 16 years ago when there were open fights between Hamas and Palestinians fighting against them? Or were they sitting on the sideline gloating and watching Palestinians fighting other Palestinians until Hamas controlled Gaza?
Was Isreal cracking down on Hamas in Gaza in the last decade? Or were they just using Hamas as an excuse to kill civilians and to argue that the National Authority obviously doesn't speak for all Palestinians, so there is no need to talk to them or work for peaceful solution?
Why should it have been Israel's job to stop a civil war that's happening in a non-Israeli controlled territory?
Clearly Hamas has significant support among Palestinians.
"In the poll, 53% of the 1,200 Palestinians surveyed said they believed Hamas is "most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people." https://www.npr.org/2023/10/12/1204881032/hamas-israel-attack-palestinians
Palestinians want revenge more than they want peace and so do the Israelis, nothing will change about this situation until both sides choose differently. Sucks for all the people who do want peace, but the people perpetuating this are significant groups of people, not simply fringe elements on each side.
But that's the point: It happened in Israeli-controlled territory. They did nothing for a decade after 1993 while de facto still occupying the areas with no change in sight, then wondered why the National Authority lost support in the population and then still couldn't bring themselved to support that peaceful government cooperating with them over radicals bent on destroying Israel.
That's the level of priority peace actually had for Israel. They created Hamas support in the first place by a decade of governing the status quo when the plan should have been to gradually work for more autonomy for Palestinians and peaceful co-existence, then they indirectly supported Hamas by using them for even more excuses to not move on with the planned peace process and now they pretend they have no other choice but killing Palestinians to root out Hamas. When in reality they had a lot of choices for 30 years. And chose the route of escalation every single time.
Israel doesn't really claim Gaza as their own territory. Other countries say they're responsible, but they don't even try to operate there.
Like I said earlier, both groups are happy to keep trying to exterminate each other. Palestinians are not innocent civilians, and neither are the Israelis. They have majority support for the fighting to continue.
@BlameThePeacock
Just curious, is this what you think about civilians in North Korea as well? That it's their own fault?
Agreed. That's why Israel shouldn't be surprised that Hamas retaliated a couple of weeks ago after years of Israel's large-scale killing sprees.
Sure, but there are rules of engagement. International law does not condone indiscriminate bombings. They want to kill as many people as possible with each strike.
They want to kill children. There's really no other conclusion when you look at the numbers.
FTFY, apologist.
@dan1101 wait, literal babies have to expect retaliation?
I've never met an Israel-fan who also wasn't a rabid white supremacist - will you be breaking the mold?
What kind of generalization is that?
Co-morbidities - I'm trying to figure out if it's a coincidence that so many Israel supporters turn out to be rabid white supremacists.
I'm also trying to figure out if it's mere coincidence that the countries that are most responsible for enabling Israel also happen to be countries with deep histories of white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism.
Any help would be appreciated.
It’s just the first time I hear that. Now that you mention it, white supremacist subreddits like /r/europe are pro-Israel, probably only because it conveniently resonates with their anti-immigrant and anti-muslim messages.
But this conflict sparked discussion from all sides since 75 years ago, so placing most pro-Israel to the nazi bin is as correct as placing most pro-Palestine to the terrorist bin. It’s like saying the people that support Palestine do so because they’re anti-Israel.
Also, I believe western countries support Israel for many reasons, but the common people do it because of how close their values and culture are to their own. I can’t believe that it is historic white supremacism that would drive this support.
The pro-Israeli stance of a Europe that is as antisemitic as it always has been is no new thing - even the Nazis considered forcing Europe's Jewish population to emigrate to Palestine as a potential "Final Solution" to their precious "Jewish Question" (it was dropped as a "solution" because Palestine was in British hands at the time). Christian Zionism predates Jewish Zionism - and it was always firmly based in European antisemitism... ie, the (very antisemitic) idea that Jewish people are "other" and cannot belong in "western" society. People are quick to forget - the post-WW2 era was the only time in "western" civilization's history that overt and brutal antisemitism wasn't the order of the day. From a historical perspective, it might even be considered an aberration for "western" society - and, considering the resurgence of of overt far-right ideology in the Global North, it may be an aberration that is coming to an end.
You cannot be pro-Palestinian and not be anti-Israel - that's no different than saying you're pro-black people but accept the existence of the Apartheid-regime in South Africa. To compromise is to simply excuse the continued repression of the former under the guise of "respectabity politics" - the politically correct term for "appeasement," I'd say.
What "values" and "culture" would that be? A belief in "western" superiority as catalyzed through genocidal settler-colonialism? White supremacism, perhaps?
I wasn't aware that I like Israel lol
What else can you tell about me?
Why would you run interference for Israel if you didn't?