this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Do you consider Hamas the aggressor in the overall context of the Israel- Palestinian conflict?

[–] WhiteHawk 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not being the aggressor does not give you a licence to murder civilians.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is it amoral? Yes, for sure 100%. But as a global community, we barely punish those who engage in this kind of tactic, and when we do, it's for some kind of political theater. More Palestinian civilians will die in this conflict by a factor, if you're going to criticize Hamas for this, I'd like to see the same standard applied to IDF.

[–] WhiteHawk 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not saying either side is innocent, but you cannot compare this to the invasion of Ukraine since Ukraine does not deliberately target Russian civilians.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Wow. I apologize for the confusion. I absolutely do not believe these two situations are comparable. My bad.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Do you think only one side can be responsible in a conflict?

[–] gaael 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Sometimes yes. I know very little about the Israelo-palestinian confilct (only what I read from news outlet) so I can't say anything for sure here.

But more generally, in history, there have been plenty of conflicts that were one side's responsability: Ukraine's invasion, WW2, colonie's independance "wars"... IMO, when you defend yourself from an agression, you are not responsible for the conflict.

In this case, I tend to agree with other commentors - Israel seems to have been increasingly oppressive and brutal at least in the past 2 decades, and you can only push people so far before they react.

[–] assassin_aragorn 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

How they react matters though. If Palestinians brutally murdered Israeli children, I think we'd all agree there's absolutely no justification for that, no matter what rings wrongs Israel has committed.

Palestine has every right to fight back against Israel, but not the civilians. When a country kills your civilians, you solve absolutely nothing by retaliation killing their civilians. Your enemy is their military and government.

I firmly believe it is impossible to push someone to a point where their attacking innocent people can be justified.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Sometimes yes.

No one is denying that.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Colonizers are always responsible for any violence that follows.

[–] assassin_aragorn 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm down with blaming the British

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Well, that goes without saying.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So if Native Americans fired rockets on e.g. Corpus Christi, Texas, they would have no responsibility at all for this action?

I am not denying the responsibility of "the colonizers", I think other people can also have some responsibility.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

They'd be justified.

The point is to not condemn the oppressed without regard for their oppression.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So just to be clear, if a Native American went up to you, told you that he was going to shoot you because your ancestors stole his land, and then murdered you, you have no qualms about this?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] assassin_aragorn 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Neither are most people living today. Their ancestors were. And as a Westerner, you're benefiting from the colonizers' actions even if you're an immigrant. By your logic, their murder of you would be justified.

You can't blame descendants for what their ancestors did, but you can ask them to share the wealth they own because of their ancestors with you.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

When did the colonization of the Americas end? I must have missed it.

I'm not an immigrant. Not really sure what you're trying to say.

There's no political will to make up for past and ongoing crimes against Native Americans. In a democracy that makes the common people complicit, no?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Where in this thread did someone "condemn the oppressed without regard for their oppression"?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They're not being oppressed if they choose to live the why they do. At some point the drug addict needs to come to terms with the fact they are the ones causing their self harm. They could compromise and stop their killing/ bloodshed to build a peace but they don't. Continuously attacking is one of the most dumbass moves they keep making. I'm out of sympathy and patience for these idiots. Keep crying but do nothing. Other parts of the Arab world have moved on and made peace with Israel. The Palestinians only have excuses and children to sacrifice at this point.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

And idoubledo did not say aggressor. So what do we gain by fixating on this word?