this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2023
220 points (96.6% liked)

News

23450 readers
4811 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

In one of the biggest actions the administration has taken against fentanyl trafficking, the U.S. on Tuesday announced a series of indictments and sanctions against 14 people and 14 firms across China and Canada related to the import of the drug to the United States.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] TheMauveAvenger 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We get the references, it was just a shit comment.

[–] Salamendacious -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think every single person got the reference but that aside I don't think it was a "shit" comment either. The opium war and the boxer protocols are very much in the minds of the Chinese communist leadership, which could be just Xi Jinping nowadays. Xi has referred to them as an “intense humiliation for the country” and a “great pain for its people”. These cultural memories are, in my opinion, definitely playing a part in china's policies when it comes to fentanyl. And that's how I interpreted that comment. Perhaps it could have been started less crassly but the core point that in the past the shoe was on the other foot is completely valid.

[–] ghostdoggtv 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not really valid to speak of shoes and feet unless the US were the ones subjecting China to the opium, which isn't true and this whole thread conveniently glossed over.

[–] Salamendacious -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

American traders participated in trading opium in China (source)

[–] ghostdoggtv 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Let me be clear, you're talking about shoes and feet like the British weren't the primary architects and mechanics of the opium wars and the American merchant participants were instead. "Cultural memories" etc.

[–] Salamendacious -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think as far as the Chinese are concerned British and American intervention in China is six of one and a half a dozen of the other

[–] ghostdoggtv 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's history and there are opinions

[–] Salamendacious 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

History is about taking imperfect information and constructing a narrative that fits as best as possible. Leopold von Ranke said historians should show "how it actually was" (he literally wrote "wie es eigentlich gewesen ist"). That simply isn't possible. I think it was David Hackett Fischer who said something along the lines of a historian can only know something about something, which is a far cry from "how it actually was."

Almost all history is an informed opinion backed up by primary and secondary sources. That's why we have revisionist history, feminist history, & Marxist history (among others). All these historiographical schools are looking at mostly the same sources and drawing different conclusions. New narratives; new opinions.

I've studied this region but I am by no means an expert in it. I've actually spent more time on Japanese history than Chinese history but I have studied it. I could be wrong but I firmly believe that Western intervention in China's past, especially the Boxer protocols, plays a role in how Chinese leaders see their place in the world and colors their relations with Western countries. I think one of the way this manifests itself is China's willingness to look the other direction as Chinese pharmaceutical companies create and ship the necessary ingredients for fentanyl to Mexican cartels. I do not have a window into China's politburo and I have not formally studied contemporary Chinese culture. I think I'm right but I freely admit that I could be wrong.

[–] ghostdoggtv 2 points 1 year ago

By all means, study the opium wars. If the Chinese are distributing fentanyl in America as revenge for the opium wars, they're fools in that they've picked the wrong targets. Besides that, China should know that revenge is a fool's errand regardless.

Terrence McKenna has a really good account of the opium wars in Food of the Gods but you have to get through the combined history of almost every other drug on earth in order to reach it. Highly recommend.