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Techradar Just Shouted Out Beehaw! (cross-posted from: https://beehaw.org/post/628792 )
(www.techradar.com)
this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2023
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Technology
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This is good news, I'm just sad they defederated with so many instances.
They do want to refederate when we get some better moderation tools. It would be cool if we had a list of the tools they need the most in order to refederate as I’m sure some in the community would be more motivated to make those tools if they new the priorities.
Here you go.: https://discuss.online/post/12787
It's quite extensive as Lemmy's mod tools are reeaally basic compared to Reddit's.
It certainly comes at an unfortunate time, but I can't fault them for wanting to build a community around their own ideology. They were left with few other options since the existing moderation tools won't yet facilitate the enforcement of such rules. It will come eventually.
I mean, when some of those sites they defederated from are going around proudly announcing they'd rather ban people asking that they defederate from the Nazi instance than the Nazi instance itself, it really drives home how much it was the right decision. We absolutely, under no circumstances, should let this space become just another Nazi bar.
I just checked, and Beehaw has defederated with 388 instances. Either the fediverse is overrun with nazis, or you're making a massive generalization and Beehaw is being ridiculous.
I'm confused on how this works... I'm on lemmy.world, and they list that as a blocked instance on that page... But I can still access beehaw communities no problem from here.
The way federation works is by federated instances making copies of those communities, and syncing them when there are any changes, like when somebody posts a comment.
Defederation disables sync, but the ghost copies still exist on l.w. You can still comment and everything, it just wouln't be synced to the main community on beehaw -- they won't see your comments, and you won't see comments posted there that are made after defederation happened.
I was actually under the impression we would no longer receive updated content from beehaw, but that doesn't seem to be the case... At any rate, if you go to https://lemmy.one/home/data_type/Post/listing_type/All/sort/TopDay/page/1, you'll see a post on their Technology community about Jellyfin. If you do the same here https://lemmy.world/home/data_type/Post/listing_type/All/sort/TopDay/page/1, it's nowhere to be found. It does look like you can still view the current content being posted on Beehaw when directly visiting those communities, but I'd be willing to bet if you try to comment, it will be like being shadow banned and only other lemmy.world users will see them. I did a quick check through on one of their most commented posts in the last 24 hours, and I don't see a single reply from anyone on lemmy.world or sh.itjust.works.
388 instances is not a number that indicates “overrun.” Anyone can make an instance.
You do know that whole "Lemmy was created by Nazis" thing was just a story made up by one guy, right? I mean sure, Nazis exist but what they're done is effectively ban the entire world because Nazis exist in the world.
What's this, now? Lemmy is infamously made by communists.
The instances that have been defederated deserved it.
"Moderate your users or get shut off" is not a new concept. Email server admins do it all the time when they blacklist other email servers for enabling spam and scams.
It's on those instances to start acting like good community members again, at which point other instances will open back up to them.
Part of the problem is that we just don't have good moderating tools yet. Getting shut off due to lack of moderation is probably a good incentive to help develop such tools and start using them.
If not, then that reinforces defederation as having been justified.
How asinine. It's guilt by association. Everyone who made an account on those instances is punished because some people were misbehaving. To say that those causing no problems other than existing on those instances "deserved" it is ridiculous. Even admins on that instance admit that:
So at some point it's just an arbitrary decision as to whether or not to punish an entire instance.
It's not a decision to punish those people, it's just a temporary extra hoop you have to jump through until moderation tools are improved and they can handle the traffic. It's not a matter of who deserves what, it's just practical.
If you want to talk on Beehaw, you can always make a second account. You haven't been banned personally.
When the vast majority of the total moderation actions performed by an instance is against the users on just two external instances, there's clearly a problem with those instances. It's completely reasonable to greatly reduce the amount of moderation you have to do by shutting off the source of the problem.
Guilt by association is a real thing and it's often justifiable if you are in that association by choice. Hang out with Nazis if you want, but don't complain when you get grouped in with them by everyone else.
@[email protected] the fact you have an account on lemmy.world you opened 10 days ago before Beehaw defederated it is quite ironic. They literally only defederated lemmy.world because of the massive influx of new users from Reddit and the open enrollment. There was no moderation to be performed as far as I've seen. As a matter of fact, your comment above is quite literally the most inflammatory comment I have seen yet while browsing the fediverse in the last week so maybe Beehaw should defederate with kbin.social? It's got the same influx of new users and open enrollment. kbin.social was almost certainly only spared because at the time they weren't federating with anyone due to the DDOS protection from Cloudflare. How utterly ridiculous.
I'm one of those new users on lemmy.world. I try to always post thoughtfully and respectfully. Remind me again why I'm being punished?
Yeah, I made an account, learned of potential issues, took a look at kbin and decided I like that better, and haven't been back. Never posted a thing from it, as far as I can remember. Stalk much?
As to it being inflammatory, I'm pretty much repeating the explanations giving by the admins for defederating. You did read the explanation post, right?
Mentioning you actually autofills both options, so no, not stalking..
Clearly you haven’t checked the modlogs because Beehaw admins literally banned 5 users of probably 20,000 at the time before deciding to defederate based on open enrollment, which kbin.social also has so don’t be surprised when your instance is also defederated.
Oh, that's very interesting that it autofills both... I'm surprised that it will tie the accounts together like that. It seems potentially error-prone as different people on different instances are bound to end up picking the same usernames.
But if they defederate from kbin, no, I'm not going to fret about it. It's bound to be temporary until issues are addressed, as is the current situation. Kbin itself was completely defederated for much of the time I have been using it.
Or it will just kill Beehaw because they're now cut off from most of the other larger lemmy instances. Unless their users are just super loyal for some reason. If I were a member there I would have already jumped ship.
They seem to really like it there. I don't blame them, from the quality of the discussions I've seen there.
In any case, it's a temporary situation. Probably. Depends on how the various admins proceed, I guess.
These are growing pains due to the large influx of new users (me among them). Some of them are painful, but they will pass. I'm sure things will open back up as the moderation tools improve.