libertarianism
About us
An open, user owned community for the general disscussion of the libertarian philosophy.
- Libertarianism is the belief that each person has the right to live his life as he chooses so long as he respects the equal rights of others.
- Libertarians defend each person’s right to life, liberty, and property.
- In the libertarian view, voluntary agreement is the gold standard of human relationships.
- If there is no good reason to forbid something (a good reason being that it violates the rights of others), it should be allowed.
- Force should be reserved for prohibiting or punishing those who themselves use force.
Most people live their own lives by that code of ethics. Libertarians believe that that code should be applied consistently, even to the actions of governments, which should be restricted to protecting people from violations of their rights. Governments should not use their powers to censor speech, conscript the young, prohibit voluntary exchanges, steal or “redistribute” property, or interfere in the lives of individuals who are otherwise minding their own business.
Source: https://www.libertarianism.org/essays/what-is-libertarianism
Rules
1. Stay on topic
We are a libertarian community. There are no restrictions regarding different stances on the political spectrum, but all posts should be related to the philosophy of libertarianism.
2. Be polite to others and respects each others opinions.
Be polite to others and respects each others opinions. We don't want any form of gatekeeping or circlejerk culture here.
3. Stay constructive and informational
In general, all types of contributions are allowed, but the relevance to this community must always be evident and presented openly by the contributor. Posts that do not meet these requirements will be removed after a public warning. Also remember to cite you sources!
4. Use self-moderation measures first before reporting.
This community is fundamentally built upon freedom of speech. Since everyone understands libertarianism differently and we do not want to exclude any kind of content a priori, we appeal to the individual users to block/mute posts or users who do not meet their requirements. Please bear this in mind when filing a report
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Yes.
Extremely evil and twisted tendencies should be both forbidden and treated, not allowed and accepted. In this case, it's not an outlet - it's encouragement. "Oh, I don't need to seek help, I can manage it thanks to AI".
Hard stop.
Gosh, I can't believe I'm typing this, because I find the topic of child abuse horrendous, heinous and disgusting.
But I don't think your argument against it is enough. There are couples who consensually roleplay stuff like rape, murder, necrophilia, sex slavery... aren't we encouraging these behaviors if we allow them too?
And I don't want to think of the things people do to sex dolls, which are perfectly legal to own, in their privacy of their own homes.
The AI part, I can agree if said AI was trained with actual illegal material (yuck!)
But banning dolls? There has to be a better argument than "because it's morally wrong."
Again, I reject child abuse 100%.
Now, if you excuse me, I'll go take a shower.
I totally agree with you. I don't even want to know what people do in their private spaces. But if the training of an AI or anything similar caused real harm it should be strictly prosecuted even more if it comes to abusing children.
Nevertheless, I cannot support a ban that is based on personal attitudes and emotions and imposed on others. There are opinions and actions that I deeply detest and yet would not condemn as long as no one is harmed in any way in the process.
I feel disgusting sounding like I'm protecting them, but the fact is its not a choice, only acting upon it is and many dont. Give them an out that doesn't harm others, that stops them seeking elsewhere, and make sure they have a way to get help to change.
Do normal adults who watch porn have difficulty controlling themselves around people? Maybe. I don't. Not raping anyone isn't difficult, no matter how attractive someone is to me. And no matter how much porn I consume, my ability to respect the concept of consent isn't going anywhere, either.
There is no treatment of paedophilia which cures it. Unfortunately, research has shown that's not possible. What modern therapies actually consist of, is moral rehabilitation, and self control training. Stuff that any normal person already knows. For a paedophile to actually act on their urges, they have to lack the things that stop any given person from raping, in addition to being a paedophile.
I'm nowhere near as convinced of the "no, allow none of it, ever" as you. I can't imagine life without any outlet for my libido, be that porn or actual sex. I think most people with paedophilia, live their lives fully capable of never raping a child, no therapy necessary. No clear-minded person needs to be told they shouldn't rape, and nothing about the condition itself means the person afflicted cant be clear-minded. A paedophile with the self-awareness to seek help isn't doing it because they are attracted to kids, but because they are attracted to kids, and also aren't sure they can stop themselves. If that was how humans worked by default, we'd all need "don't rape" therapy.
Nothing about the condition means it would always be paired with an inability for moral thought or self control. If it did, the therapies we do have couldn't work without curing the actual condition. And they do work. Just not the way most people probably think they do.
I'm not sure where the line should be, but due to the intense evil done by offending paedophiles, there is a well deserved stigma around the condition. The general public knows almost nothing about it except the damage it can do to those they care about. And yes, that means we should start with a line drawn as safely as possible, but we should also do the work and the actual research, to figure out how much can be done for these people, without harm.
And for the reasons above, I don't think "nothing", and "make it all forbidden" is that.
I disagree on the hard stop, but it would need to be really carefully considered.
"Heres a pile of underage everything you can explore all you want" - no.
"deal with urges and satisfy in a way that harms no one, that you can use in your own time away from everyone" - borderline
"As a part of your treatment, and to explore what your triggers are, and help us learn to mitigate these aspects so you can live a normal life" - should be considered.