Update:
The comments from this post will not be removed as to preserve the discussion around the announcement. Any continued discussions outside of this thread that violate server rules will be removed. We feel that everyone that has an opinion, and wanted to vent, has been heard.
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Original post:
Yesterday, we received information about the planned federation by Hexbear. The announcement thread can be found here: https://www.hexbear.net/post/280770. After reviewing the thread and the comments, it became evident that allowing Hexbear to federate would violate our rules.
Our code of conduct and server rules can be found here.
The announcement included several concerning statements, as highlighted below:
- “Please try to keep the dirtbag lib-dunking to hexbear itself. Do not follow the Chapo Rules of Posting, instead try to engage utilizing informed rhetoric with sources to dismantle western propaganda. Posting the western atrocity propaganda and pig poop balls is hilarious but will pretty quickly get you banned and if enough of us do it defederated.”
- “The West's role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.”
- “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term "rules-based international order." It is in the Left's interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.”
The rhetoric and goal of Hexbar are clear based on their announcement: to "dismantle western propaganda" and "demolish organizations such as NATO” shows that Hexbar has no intention of "respecting the rules of the community instance in which they are posting/commenting.” It’s to push their beliefs and ideology.
In addition, several comments from a Hexbear admin, demonstrate that instance rules will not be respected.
Here are some examples:
“I can assure you there will be no lemmygrad brigades, that energy would be better funneled into the current war against liberalism on the wider fediverse.”
“All loyal, honest, active and upright Communists must unite to oppose the liberal tendencies shown by certain people among us, and set them on the right path. This is one of the tasks on our ideological front.”
- https://lemmy.world/comment/121850
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1487168
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1476084
- https://lemmy.world/comment/171595
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3648500
Overall community comments:
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526128
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526086
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3652828
To clarify, for those who have inquired about why Hexbear versus Lemmygrad, it should be noted that we are currently exploring the possibility of defederating from Lemmygrad as well based on similar comments Hexbear has made.
- https://lemmygrad.ml/post/158656
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/882559
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/540170
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/446529
Defederation should only be considered as a last resort. However, based on their comments and behavior, no positive outcomes can be expected.
We made the decision to preemptively defederate from Hexbear for these reasons. While we understand that not everyone may agree with our decision, we believe it is important to prioritize the best interests of our community.
They simultaneously love and hate communists, socialists, fascists, "the left", "The FAR Left", nationalist, and liberals. While simultaneously seeming to not know what any of those things actually are. They do seem to be steadfast in their unity as far as using America as a scapegoat for all the worlds problems including all of Americas problems as though all of America is a single entity running the world both with ruthless efficiency and complete incompetence at the same time.
lmao you seem to have built a bizarre caricature in your head.
Just so you know, we like communists (mostly, we are communists), we're generally OK with socialists (if they're actually socialists and not just adherents of welfare-state capitalism, aka social democrats), we despise fascists and want to see their ideology eradicated from the world, the "far left" isn't really a coherent concept to us (unless you mean ultraleftists, but it's pretty clear that you don't, and that's a whole ball of wax), we are almost entirely opposed to nationalism, though there would likely be disagreement on its value in the context of a liberatory struggle (like what's been going on in Africa lately), and we don't like liberals because they support capitalism. Also we probably know better than you do what those things actually mean. And yes, we hate the US, because it's an evil empire.
This is prime example of my point.
Your statement reveals you have no knowledge of the subject or ideals you claim to believe in. Communism is a process in which to establish a Socialist utopia. It was conceived by Marx based on the Machiavellian quote "The ends justify the means." and was laid out in the Communist Manifesto. It is a militant process in which to implement SOCIALISM by force. I am guessing you are a fan of how things worked out in China?
rofl tell me more about my own ideology please, this is absolute gold
(And here I thought it probably wasn't worth engaging with you lmao)
Why don't you tell me what communism means to you. You can't really communicate ideas if you don't speak a common language.
When I refer to communists, I mean people whose goal is to reach the stateless, classless, moneyless end-goal society known as communism, in which workers own and control the means of production and receive the full value of their labor. This includes tendencies such as classical Marxism, Marxism-Leninism, and Marxist-Leninist-Maoism, as well as some others, like Trotskyism or Posadism, which are a bit different but still definitely communist. Just about all communists today are Marxists of some form, but Marx and Engels did not invent the idea when they wrote the Manifesto, nor does the Manifesto lay out any sort of path to reach the goal of communism (it's more a statement of purpose for a movement than a set of instructions).
Socialism is a more nebulous term, encompassing everyone from reformists who seek to use electoral means to achieve their ends (something I and most other Hexbears believe is a non-starter, though many of us fell into this category not so long ago) to revolutionaries who are simply trying to escape the "negative branding" of Communism. There are also people who claim to be Socialist but are actually capitalists who support a welfare state, generally known as Social Democrats (we at Hexbear view social democrats as liberals, and generally don't like them very much; there is some disagreement on the use of politicians like Bernie Sanders and AOC to the leftist movement, but we mostly aren't super fond of them). To further confuse the matter, communists frequently refer to revolutionary states (e.g. the USSR, Cuba, China, Vietnam, and others) as "socialist," positioning the concept as essentially the middle ground between capitalism and the end-goal of communism.
And since you asked about China: views on China vary on Hexbear, but are almost universally more positive than you'll see in a liberal space like this. Not everyone trusts that the CPC will seek to "hit the communism button" by 2050 as they claim they will do, but basically everyone recognizes that the US state department, and the US media who walk in lockstep with it, is constantly lying and otherwise obfuscating the truth to cast the country in a negative light, as they have been doing for decades. We do not believe that China was committing a "cultural genocide" against Muslims, as those claims rely almost entire on a single, deeply anti-China source named Adrian Zenz, and we also don't believe that China is the authoritarian hellscape the US media and state department portray (people in China do vote for their local officials, the government officials with whom they have the most contact, and over 90% of Chinese people approve of the central government's policies and actions, per a Harvard University poll of the Chinese public).
Color me dubious that this comment was worth typing out, to be honest, but since you seem to be engaging in good faith at the moment, I have done the same.
There's no difference between the likes of you and fascists. Totalitarian ideologies must be eradicated, that's the one thing I agree with you.
Pretty sure literally every marginalized group would disagree with you on that, but ok lol
No, you see, trans people in Cuba who have more rights than US trans people would agree that communists hate marginalized people equally as much.
We'd take your comments a lot more seriously if it wasn't so obvious that you barely know anything about what you're criticizing.
It's like going into a sports car forum and telling everyone that because BMX is shit and Tony Hawk is an asshole, Dodge Neons sucks. Those things all have wheels but you demonstrably don't understand a single thing you're talking about.
You don't even have cogent criticisms. You're just angry about something you don't understand, and you probably don't even know why.