this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2023
559 points (98.6% liked)
Europe
8324 readers
1 users here now
News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, 🇩🇪 ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures
Rules
(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)
- Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
- No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
- No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.
Also check out [email protected]
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
While I agree that we should focus heavily on the big stuff I really don't understand why people get so upset about this. Everything little thing helps and if people just said "yes of course we should stop that" and moved on to the nex thing, we could get so much further. It's just such a low hanging fruit to ban stupid receipts that are generally not wanted.
Other low hanging fruit examples: single use plastic bags, single use plastic plates and cups, unnesseary packaging for products, non biodegradable packaging, unnesseary lights in stores that are closed, the smallest coin size like the 1-50 cent etc etc etc. Literally everything helps so don't get upset.
If you can't handle the small changes how the hell do you handle the bigger changes that are to come.
More important low hanging fruit:
Why are people always so small minded about this? Have you not considered how immensely more polluting a car or a house is than a plastic bag? Have you not considered the people affected: a few of the richest vs millions of average people?
Think big. Think rich. Those are the changes we need.
Of course those are low hanging fruit as well. It just didn't come to mind when I was writing. Thanks for adding to the list. No need to be condescending.
I'm just tired of being blamed when the responsibility lies squarely on the billionaires and the corporations they control.
I can only agree to that. I feel you. We can only hold them accountable by being disobedient to the norms of consumerism and stop giving them money and publicly humiliate their actions.
Because there are side-effects. Receipts are an important tool against tax evasion. I.e. I would be very surprised if this change doesn't cost magnitudes more in lost revenue than in prevented environmental damage. If the benefits are small even a small cost can make your measure a bad idea.
Edit: Not exactly scientific but: I can find thermal paper that can be recycled as paper for about €0.07 per meter on amazon.de. I.e. a single environmentally friendly receipt costs about a cent. As a reference: Tax evasion in this area is around 10 billion euros per year in Germany alone.
You are talking from a pure economic and profit viewpoint. The nature doesn't care about your profits. It cares about your actions. Nature is literally burning right now and we need action to prevent that and yes that does come with a price. Stop thinking only in profits. Also your argument about the "cheap price" does not hold up. We use billions of meters of recipes every year. Let's say the average frensh person go shopping 3 times a week and thereby use about 0.5m of receipt there are 67 milion people in France but let's say some are kids and some don't go shopping so let's make that an even 50milion people.
50 milion people using 0.5m of paper for 50 weeks that's 1.25 bilion meters of paper for 0.07€ that's 87.5 million euros spend on just the paper alone then there's the cost of all the machines and man hours spend on servicing them etc etc. and that's just France!
So come again.
Exactly. It costs money. Money we won't have when let people dodge taxes. 87.5 million isn't much when we're talking about costs in the double digit billions.
Do you really believe the government would implement something this unpopular unless it worked? If they do something like that, it's abundantly clear that it's necessary. No one starts annoying people with that flimsy paper for ideological reasons.
If you know a little bit about sales tax evasion, it becomes abundantly clear that receipts help. To explain: If you dodge taxes and don't want to get caught you'll still declare a portion of your turnover to not arise suspicion. Hence it doesn't matter if half the people in question get a digital receipt, half (or so) will be declared by tax dodgers as well. Receipts make it extremely easy for IRS agents/tax officers to check whether a till actually registers all sales. They just need to make a few purchases and then later check whether what's on their receipt matches the till's memory. But it doesn't work if they have to ask for a receipt. As I said, a portion of turnover will be declared anyway and it's going to be that with receipts if those are optional.
Hence best we can do is to allow digital as an alternative to printing so that not all receipts are printed. That's possible here in Germany, but it's not used much and it's an either or relation to paper printing. If you have a feasible solution on how to force everyone (including octogenarians with dementia) to receive a digital receipt, I'm all ears. But if you don't then paper is the best we've got. It's also the only solution that's privacy friendly.
Customer can still get a receipt, it just won't always be printed, you'll have to ask. So this wont change anything related to tax evasion, it just means that you won't have a garbage can full of newly printed receipt next to the exit door
Asking defeats the purpose.
The point is that receipts make it extremely easy for IRS agents/tax officers to check whether a till actually registers all sales. They just need to make a few purchases and then later check whether what’s on their receipt matches the till’s memory. But it doesn’t work if they have to ask for a receipt. A portion of turnover will be declared anyway and it’s going to be that with receipts if those are optional.
Sure, a tax dodger might end up going through the garbage to remove the transactions corresponding to receipts that were thrown away from their records, but that's at least quite a bit of effort.
The point is that an IRS agent wouldn't throw the receipt in the garbage. I.e. the garbage would be the easiest way to determine which receipts might end up being used as a reference by the authorities.
I know people who work in the tax office. Mandatory receipts being necessary is an undisputed fact for them.
For me I believe that making everything rely on technology and going digital is a bad thing, As much as I hate paper and bureaucracy. I am still attached to the idea that people should be allowed to function in a society by just using pen and paper, and plastic bags :-ç , requiring people to subscribe to a vicious cycle of contiounously outdating and outpaced costly technology every 5 years is more harmful to the environment than pen and paper.