Honestly, MLs tend to do this with a lot of convos, I feel.
this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2023
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I've mostly stopped caring since its clear nothing is going to change for the better unless something catastrophic happens first. Like for instance famines and other climate change induced supply chain failures forcing people to fight a government that has nothing left to offer them except violence. I'll still be fighting with CPUSA until I die though.
Some people may criticize your comment as being doomer-ish, and I understand that sentiment, but I also know that in certain countries, like my own, it really is going to take something catastrophic to push people into fighting for meaningful changes.
I mean, I live in Canada which means people here are incredibly dismissive and complacent (except Indigenous communities) which is going to require something BIG to wake the masses.
Might want to pick a better org.
Why?
The CPUSA leadership are corrupt, backwards, and completely out of touch with their reality as an organization and material reality in the United States.
The only main pushes seem to be for empty electoralism for Democrat politics and never any other substantial effort. The leadership are completely unable to let go of the fact that it’s not the 1960’s-80’s anymore. They are also Pro-Khrushchev and believe in market economics.
The party line is that they are literally opposed to a revolution. They are a liberal shill party that’s an empty shell of its former self, and the positions are extremely idealist and removed from material reality.
COINTELPRO did a number on them? i'd imagine so since that's what the op was created to target
Actually, they are not corrupt or backwards. They are more realistic and in touch than most other orgs.
We do not and never have endorsed Democrats as well.
We are also anti-Khruschv.
We are also not opposed to revolution.
👍
There is evidence to back up every single one of these claims? Why lie???
One of the lines is literally "We have to defeat Trump by voting Hillary"
https://www.cpusa.org/article/hillarys-hour/
Leaders in the 50's/60's to the modern day continued to parrot Khrushchev "revelations" about Stalin.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/40403665.pdf
Here they explicitly lay out that the movement will see victory against fascism and will lead the "Revolution", through electoral means, and that with the ballot box they can strike blows against the right wing.
https://www.cpusa.org/article/defeating-the-rightwing-on-the-road-to-socialism/
This is all beyond idealist and completely devoid of theory or Marxist policy.
I mean yes both Dems and Republicans are capitalist imperialists who are never reformable and will forever be capitalist imperialists, however while the revolution hasn't happened yet it is important to vote Dems which takes barely any effort.
Conservatives straight up are threatening the lives of minority groups and LGBTQ on an entirely different scale than democrats and life for me as a minority living in the US has gotten significantly worse since trump.
It is idealistic to just not vote or vote for some 3rd party that never wins while real shit has been ramping up for people like me from the republican side (and yes I know Dems do it too and are also bigoted racists but again Republicans do it on a whole nother scale).
If the left guarantees dems our votes then they will only move further right to get anti-trump right-wingers’ reluctant votes. They will only be pressured to not be as bad as republicans if we pressure them by not “voting blue no matter who.”
That's purely speculation. I can also speculate that by letting Republicans win, the spineless Dems are just gonna join the winning side and swap over. Plenty have already done so or became libertarians who are just mini republicans. If popular support is on the side of the more extreme right then everyone moves further right. You can literally see this effect in CNN where they have increasingly worse narratives sliding towards the fascist right.
By the way the same Republicans are portraying the LGBTQ community as associated with groomers and also happen to have the gun nuts on their side. At least democrats don't actively do that. Republicans have been sliding real fast towards an even more extreme right ever since the trump presidency.
But sure both are equal and let's not vote and let Republicans win every seat. Definitely not gona have a worsening affect marginalized communities.
Democrats have been in power in that time! Dems are complicit!
What do they actually, materially, do? Do they just talk about protection without following through?
Voting does not stop anything. It is not important.
I'll still do it, some, but it doesn't stop what's coming for all of us.
The Dems just want donations, they don't want to help anyone.
I dig voting in local elections as "generally a good idea", I still do it.
I just don't see voting on bourgeois elections as very important - substantial change is never on the table.
I agree!
They materially exist to at least slow down the more extreme racist and bigoted narratives and policies being pushed by Republicans. If democrats didn't exist and this nations as purely Republicans we would be seeing the LGBTQ community being thrown in camps already.
Let's go with your theory that voting doesn't stop or alleviate any issues. Republican power has only been growing due to worsening conditions, and fascism is preferable to socialism in the eyes of the majority of the brainwashed reactionaries living here. We don't help vote cause "voting doesn't matter" and let Republicans win over and take every seat. The spineless dem will give in and join their side, and now we got a race of who can get more extreme right.
By the way conservatives are much more likely to vote than disillusioned Democrats. And they will vote in droves for their fascist leaders.
You already see this in republican circles already where they have really started sliding further right at an unprecedented scale. And just look at all the policies being passed in Florida, it is not looking good.
Anyone who thinks worsening conditions will lead to a communist revolution over a fascist one is not paying attention to the reactionary preference for fascism in this nation.
This does not bode well for marginalized communities. You may not give a shit but I do, as my own life has been severely negatively impacted ever since the trump presidency.
The only people who would have no fear of a republican take over are straight and white.
Do they actually do this?
There are already people in camps in the U$. They are just not people you care about. Many of them were placed there under the aegis of Dem politicians.
There are already marginalized people in camps. You're just ok with that. The Trump presidency is over, and the bad things that are happening now are under a Dem president. The Dems do not materially ease the suffering.
Amerikkka has always been as bad as 1940's fascism. Voting will never change that.
Since voting doesn't matter vote republican next election.
Homie, that's only a substantive dig to you because you think voting in the U$ is meaningful.
That doesn't support your argument or defend against mine.
i really thought this was going to end with a /s
damn
Yeah, I've stopped being angry.
I'm morally opposed to capitalism. That's enough for me. It needs to die, logically. I'm not emotional about it all. I'm methodical.
Oh yeah, and fancy seeing a CPUSA member here. This place is very anti-CPUSA so I generally stick out like a sore thumb.
To anyone saying we're an echo-chamber, I'd point them to you as a great example that we do keep around those we disagree with. Wishing you a pleasant day, American!
Edit: I just had to open my mouth, didn't I?
Well, they're banned now
Guess I spoke too soon, shame
Just a 3day temp ban, tho
How can you see that? I was really liking Makan's effort to generate weekly conversation, then saw yesterday they were banned and had to look back in their history to find this whole thread. I've got no dog in this fight as I'm stuck in a region where our only option is a practically defunct DSA chapter so was just floating through the lefty void.
Gonna check modlog now. Thanks.
It's in the modlog:
https://lemmygrad.ml/modlog
I also like Makan, and think they have great contributions.
I'm not an admin, and can't speak for them. I think there's something to the temp ban, though. Every party in the U$ is bad in some way, and it's poor form not to recognize that in some way.
If Makan had just said, "yeah, they're flawed but they're the only party around me. I like the work we do here", that wouldn't have been a problem.
Just about every criticism that was put forward of CPUSA was warranted (if kind of piled on, and not really relevant to the thread).
Thanks for the link. I admit I'm a fairly quiet DSA member in my area but we def have our flaws too. I am on the mailing list for CPUSA and was looking into starting up a chapter in my area but I'm not sure if the effort that would be needed to put into it would be worth it since it's a Republican stronghold and even the Dem presence is shit here.
Still not justified. “uncivilly defending CPUSA, when everyone else in the conversation had valid points.” Really?
Edit: what baffles me is thinking that banning people will somehow reform them.
Edit2: fixed crucial typo
CPUSA is flawed (like every party in the U$). It's an odd move to act like they're above criticism.
Idk why you'd think a temp ban would have no effect on behavior.
Edit-removed typo correction