this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2025
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This pardon seems justified to me. Nobody deserves "double life imprisonment plus 40 years, without the possibility of parole", as far as I'm concerned. Yes, literally nobody. And here it's even worse than that: the sentence was explicitly designed to be exemplary, i.e., to frighten others. That is just retribution, vengeance, posing as justice. America should be better than that.
I'm aware that this guy probably ordered two murders. The probably is important.
The court has no evidence that he ordered murders and dismissed the charges in such a way that they can never be filed again.
The PDF referenced in 3: https://freeross.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Doc_14_Dismissal_Indictment_7-26-2018.pdf
Quoted site: https://freeross.org/false-allegations/
Not beyond reasonable doubt, no. But there was a preponderance of evidence, according to the court. I'm sure you already know this.
In criminal law you need overwhelming proof. So I agree with you, it's absolutely correct that he was not found guilty of this.
Chelsea Manning and Aaron Swartz also got ridiculous sentences. It’s a theme with cyber cases
It's a theme with the US justice system. Doesn't happen in Europe, even for genuinely bad crimes.
Happend in France a months ago. When there were riots after a cop killed a boy in the poor suburbs, one of our dear ministers (/s) asked for exemplary sentences and some of them took months of prison for packs of rice or energy cans...
Nobody? What sentence would you give Hitler?
20 years maybe, then a permanent community-service mandate
are you joking, or...?
Not at all. Of course, I'm not American so my starting point is not that people are locked up for years for the tiniest offense
congrats, that's not my starting point either, (or most Americans'...) thanks. just don't exactly find leading the Holocaust as "the tiniest offense"
Did you know that the Norwegian shooter (who killed a very large number of unarmed young people with an automatic weapon in 2011) is already 2/3 of the way thru his sentence?
This was my point. Americans didn't understand this and still don't. Cultures have different conceptions of what purpose is served by punishment.
i am indeed aware other cultures exist. but i have a feeling most Norwegians still would want Hitler with more than 20 years. he affected the world and i'm sure you know that your view there is a little unorthodox.
i just looked up the Norwegian shooter because no i didn't know about that, looks like 21 years is just the maximum civilian sentence in general. it can be extended, and he's been denied parole multiple times including last year, and kept in solitary confinement... seems likely to be extended. The military penal code however, does indeed have life imprisonment, which i'm pretty sure is there for people like Hitler.
Interesting. It figures. And Breivik will never be truly free, I get that. But in a sense his punishment is a lifetime of ostracism, which is pretty terrible for a human being. What's more interesting to me is that almost nobody was clamoring for capital punishment in Norway as they surely would have been pretty much anywhere else.
On Hitler, yes of course I know I have an unconventional take. But I really think most people are not thinking straight. If you have a principle, you stick to it, you don't drop it because "wow that one was so bad". My principle is that it is not right to tie down a captive human being and forcibly snuff out their life. The abstract fact of what they did or didn't do is completely immaterial. For me, capital punishment is a moral abomination of the first order. End of story.
I see what you're saying. I've personally landed on not being okay with capital punishment but I've been on the fence when I was younger, surely because my culture like you said. people most definitely would've called for that here
I guess it's just really hard for me to agree with removing the lifetime of ostracism too. I do apologize for initially being rude about it
No apologies needed, I thought you were quite civil. People have different opinions and I'm circumspect enough to see that my own views and values are just the mysterious product of my culture and conditioning, there's not much absolute in right and wrong. Nice talking.