484
Trump Pentagon pick attacks UN and Nato and urges US to ignore Geneva conventions
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2024
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Citizens did make noise, citizens did point out that he violated Leahy Law, and the way to hold politicians accountable in a democracy is getting them out of office and away from the levers of power. Well here we are, Biden and Dems are going out of office and the genocide is going to be actively being accelerated by the Trump administration gleefully flooding Israel with more weapons "cleanse" Gaza so they can build their gaudy hotels and fulfill some Book of Revelations prophesy because the republican party is absolutely flooded with Dominionists.
Good. Fucking. Job.
Exactly.
And the real irony is that of the two candidates, which one is most likely to respond to post-election pressure to adjust the policies?
Sure sure sure, Trump can be influenced by money and flattery, but the people that are going to pay and flatter him are not exactly the ones arguing to save the lives of innocent civilians.
So the irony remains, of the two candidates to choose from, the people complaining about what is happening in Gaza picked the one least likely to do anything helpful once elected ("do" as opposed to what they said to get elected).
On the issue of Israel, neither. They have exactly the same policies.
And there is no political leverage the proletariat has to push for policy change after the election. The pressure came from "do what we say or at election time we vote for someone else"
Well, every fucking election when it comes time to follow through after they again failed to hold up their end of the bargain the majority gets cold feet and caves to familiarity because risking change is scary.
You're not wrong.
That's why 99% of voters pick the same two shitty parties that are driving them to the brink of homelessness.
At this point, we get to make a lengthy explanation about First Past the Post always leading to a 2 party system because of the spoiler effect, we get to a lengthy history explanation about how the (at the time) progressive republican party won the election with Abraham Lincoln because the (at the time) conservative Democrat party split into Dixiecrats in favor of slavery and northern Democrats who didn't care either way and the Whig party just up and died in 1850 and that's the only way a 3rd party becomes viable in FPTP. And then we just argue back and forth of "well if people just spontaneously saw things the way I do they would vote third party too!" to "That's not how reality works."
People know how reality works. That's why 10,000,000 fewer people voted this election.
Correction, that's not how reality works in terms of voting systems, you'd be surprised just how few people actually understand how voting systems work and why different voting systems break down in various ways and the greatest mathematicians for the last 150+ years have not devised a perfect voting system.
But at this point, you took my conclusion about how the reality of voting systems break down and strawmanned it implying people already know government is corrupt.
That's not a straw man. You left your response open-ended for someone else to draw conclusions and inferences from. In no way was that response out of context or a mischaracterization of the initial idea you layed out. stop trying to straw man the concept of a straw man.
"Refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction" is exactly what the other poster did. My "that's not how reality works" was the next step after "if people spontaneously see how I see voting they'd vote third party too" my argument referring to how people don't just spontaneously change their mind and vote third party en masse.
Instead they retorted with some vague nebulous "people know how reality works" implying that people know The System(tm) is corrupt and flawed, which sure they get the instinct it is but don't actually know why or how it is corrupt and flawed. Which is not what I was talking about. It doesn't actually refute my point or the description of the exact conversation I've had dozens of times. It pretty much always goes the same way, as I described it.
First Past the Post always leads to 2 dominant parties, the last time in us history there was a 3rd party that won one party died and another party split itself in 2. Those conditions are what is most likely to get a third party in the US, and any amount of wishful thinking about the populace suddenly wishing up and just voting 3rd party is delusional magical thinking at best.
There isn't much more textbook of an example of a strawman you can get in the wild.
Your talking point scores your underlying view on the discussion. When it was presented it became open as an allowed point of discussion. As a result, refuting it does not, a straw man make. -It would make for a straw man if you had not presented the previously quoted argument in the first place and you had still gotten the same response of "people know how reality works", but that's not what happened.