this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2024
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[–] Ledivin 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (53 children)

...what jaws of victory? The Dems were literally never projected to win by a majority of polls at any point during the election cycle.

[–] PugJesus 17 points 1 day ago (52 children)

…what jaws of victory? The Dems were literally never projected to win by a majority of polls at any point during the election cycle.

I don't suppose being up against a senile rapist who fellates his microphone in front of a crowd and peddles deeply unpopular policies at all counts as a victory that should be, by all rights, a layup, except for the fact that Dem messaging is and has always been pure dogshit?

Those jaws.

[–] fukhueson 2 points 1 day ago (19 children)

If only it had been 2 trillion...

[–] PugJesus 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

As if it would make a difference. Success doesn't matter if your PR arm can't meaningfully capitalize on it. The Dems could bring up fully automated luxury gay space communism to the US with total success, and their obsession with being an inclusive, big-tent party, like it's the mid-2000s, would make them unable to campaign on it.

[–] fukhueson -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Weird, I've heard of the IRA, chips, and infrastructure act from the Dems.

[–] PugJesus 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

We're the politically involved, man. It's not us that need the messaging. It's the mass of American voters who don't remember anything if the drum isn't being beaten 24/7.

[–] fukhueson -5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Maybe they should have put it on the news.

[–] PugJesus 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Maybe Harris should've made it a centerpiece of her campaign rather than the message of normality, 'they go low we go high', and 'being the adults in the room' style of 'bipartisanship' which appeals to Beltway types and other such Very Important Commenters, but is viewed indifferently by most of the country.

Fuck, man, I'm not trying to assign 100% of the blame to the Dems. This election was fucked from top to bottom, and ultimately the responsibility lays with the American people for voting in fascism. But it's hard not to be pissed at the Dems for trying nothing new and being all out of ideas.

[–] fukhueson -4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Well I'm pretty glad they tried something like the IRA, chips, and infrastructure.

Where in your comments did you assign any blame to anyone else but here?

[–] PugJesus 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Well I’m pretty glad they tried something like the IRA, chips, and infrastructure.

I'm explicitly talking about campaigning, not policy. Unfortunately, campaigning matters as much as, or more than, policy, when it comes to winning elections.

[–] fukhueson -4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Where in your comments did you assign any blame to anyone else but there?

[–] PugJesus 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Where in your comments did you assign any blame to anyone else but there?

Abstainers (and, for the record, FUCK them for not caring about literal fascism)

This election was fucked from top to bottom, and ultimately the responsibility lays with the American people for voting in fascism.

Didn't realize I had to itemize my criticisms any time I wanted to bitch.

[–] fukhueson -4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Ah, so including the comment I already noted, you blamed abstainers in another conversation. Sorry I was only paying attention to our discussion, in which you did not blame anyone but Dems until the comment I already noted.

[–] PugJesus 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Didn’t realize I had to itemize my criticisms any time I wanted to bitch.

[–] fukhueson -5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If you're claiming to not put all the blame on Dems I look for evidence of it, and in our conversation I found that was substantially lacking except for the comment in which you claimed it. The previous comments in our conversation did not outline your view in that regard.

You know, messaging and all...

[–] PugJesus 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm also not running a nationwide campaign in which the opinions of the electorate are key to my survival. I made a comment to bitch about one of the specific parties responsible for this loss under an article about said party trying to burnish its credentials at a point when it no longer matters.

Fuck's sake.

[–] fukhueson -4 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] PugJesus 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] fukhueson -4 points 1 day ago

Messaging sounds difficult.

[–] Ensign_Crab 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Or maybe they shouldn't have punted on things that had immediate tangible benefits to individuals and then gloat about the IRA which, while a positive, was largely bereft of tangible individual benefits.

Particularly after a very long, very public dismantling of every benefit of BBB and then killing it entirely. And then we saw the minimum wage increase die. So we saw Democrats show their true colors toward people who were struggling, and expected us to be happy with something where the only tangible individual benefit was 10 reduced drug prices for boomers on medicare. In 2026. And increasing the length of subsidies for the ACA.

As far as individuals are concerned, they were picking around the edges and ordering us to be happy about it. People had every right to ask "what's in it for me?" after Democrats' golden boy Manchin killed BBB. The answer was lacking.

And calling it the Inflation Reduction Act was a sick joke.

EDIT: I forgot about how Manchin was also the deciding vote to kill the expanded child tax credit, doubling child poverty overnight.

[–] fukhueson 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Odd, I find none of this personal opinion resonating in reality. IRA led directly to ~100000 new jobs.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a-look-at-the-economic-impact-and-progress-of-bidens-inflation-reduction-act-so-far

The Inflation Reduction Act or IRA signed by President Biden back in 2022 invest close to $370 billion to combat climate change, and to date, there's been more than $100 billion in private investment and roughly 100,000 new jobs created in clean energy manufacturing.

Unsure how reducing drug prices for those on Medicare is a criticism...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Build_Back_Better_Plan

Continued negotiations between Manchin and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer eventually resulted in the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, which was signed into law in August 2022, and incorporated some of the Build Back Better Act's climate change, healthcare, and tax reform proposals while excluding its social safety net proposals.

Calling Manchin any sort of "golden boy" of the Dems tells me everything I need to know about this line of discussion. And that I'm not gonna continue with you because this is venturing more into unfounded personal opinion than fact. I can see you prefer to consider Manchin some sort of instrument Democrats employed to deny people the benefits of the full BBB rather than an outlier of the Democratic party who, along with sinema, voted more in line with Republicans than Democrats. Saying "Democrats showed their true colors" is disgustingly disingenuous.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/kyrsten_sinema/412509

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/joe_manchin/412391

Have a good day!

Edit: nice tonal edits to your comment. I definitely won't be responding to such bad faith discussion.

Edit 2: reading the source I posted answers your question... Highlighted the section you didn't read.

[–] Ensign_Crab -1 points 1 day ago

Odd, I find none of this personal opinion resonating in reality. IRA led directly to ~100000 new jobs.

Got a source on that, or is that just the PR?

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