this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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I’m genuinely curious. Years ago, I was a chubby young pothead who lived on fast food. Taco Bell, McDonald’s, KFC, you name it—I ate it. Back in college, fast food probably made up at least 50% of my diet. And it wasn’t just because it was quick and cheap—I actually enjoyed it.

But these days, I find myself craving it less and less. Besides being more health-conscious, it just doesn’t hit the spot like it used to. It’s more expensive than ever, mostly bland, and I feel terrible after I eat it. So what’s changed? Is it just part of the enshitification of everything? Have I just gotten old, or has fast food really gone downhill?

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 days ago (25 children)

The other day I ordered a burger and they put tomatoes on it even though I asked them not to. I was about to complain, but decided to take a bite anyway and…huh. The tomato had no flavour whatsoever. I used to not like the taste of tomatoes but how could I object to this?

So what does this mean? Are my taste buds not functioning like they used to? But I spent lunch looking it up and apparently, there is a fair consensus that tomatoes, along with a host of other fruits and vegetables, really are blander today than when I was a kid. For something I never liked, this kind of works out but…

[–] spittingimage 46 points 2 days ago (16 children)

My wife, a keen gardener of heirloom tomatoes, says it's because the varieties that sell commercially are bred for long shelf-life and nothing else.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Ah that would certainly explain it.

My working theory had been that maybe they were being selected for size à la strawberries, which have grown almost comically huge in recent years. But it's as though nature can only provide a set amount of flavour per fruit, and by growing it larger, it only gets diluted over a greater volume? But I haven't been able to determine whether fast food tomatoes are behemoths since they are already cut up.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Not quite, but close! Molecular plant breeder here.

There is no set "limit" to flavour but it's a complex trait that is easy to lose if you don't select for it. If you breed for size, and don't track taste, it's very easy to leave the flavour-producing aspects unchanged, thus resulting in a "dilution". Furthermore, you're often actively selecting against flavour, indirectly and unintentionally, by selecting for shelf life - if something doesn't ripen, it won't over-ripen and spoil.

This is what has historically happened to a lot of produce but it doesn't have to be the case - modern breeding lets us breed for flavour and nutrition too! Heirloom varieties can offer some reprieve, but for all their taste they tend to be quite unproductive and sickly (ofter "heirloom" means inbred and that does not produce very fit organisms).

Good news is, new varieties are being bred that have it all - yield, taste, and nutrition! It's just hard to convince consumers and businesses to switch over to new varieties, as you don't really buy according to the flavour, just the looks.

Greetings from the UK ;)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That is fascinating! You should do an AMA.

I would love to see fewer monocultures at the supermarket. I have noticed lately that a number of new apple varieties have been popping up, at least where I am in Canada. I keep hoping for some kind of craft beer-like renaissance in produce where there is a lot more to explore and rabid fandom over particular varieties.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 16 hours ago

I'm glad it was interesting! I think we'll all appreciate more variety in our diets.

The apples you mentioned are a good example of this. Apple breeders used to always breed the flavour away in favour of looks since that's what sells. When one guy bred a tasty apple, only for his colleagues to make it tasteless again, he decided to brand it and enforce some quality control. Breeders were very skeptical, and few could imagine that consumers would care about what apple variety they're eating - do you know what type of potato or cucumber you buy? But in the end, consumers proved willing to engage and branded apples are now widespread. Tenderstem broccoli has recently inspired Brassica breeders to start branding and marketing their new varieties.

I'm involved with some breeders trying to do the same with potatoes!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Thanks for such an in depth answer. Is there a good place to buy seeds for newer strains like this?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 16 hours ago

You're welcome 😊

What we can do in terms of breeding varies significantly between crops - tomato's a breeze, apples are hard, potato used to be a nightmare but is improving rapidly. If you're interested in modern seed, I'd recommend turning to a breeding company.

For example, Rijk Zwaan are a major supplier in Europe for a number of crops. https://rijkzwaan.co.uk/home

Happy growing!

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