this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2023
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*edited to correct conversion in title

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[–] DigitalTraveler42 97 points 1 year ago (4 children)

We fucked around, now we're going to start finding out.

[–] SirYeet 65 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Captain Planet tried to tell us

[–] o0joshua0o 23 points 1 year ago

So did Al Gore.

[–] RandomlyAssigned 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] lapommedeterre 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If only we took pollution down to zero...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

At this point it'd make things worse due to what climate researchers call the Faustian Bargain

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Bjørn Samset of the University of Oslo and his colleagues used four climate models, which cover a range of climate sensitivities, to see what would happen to the global average temperature if the short-lived greenhouse gases (methane, nitrous oxide etc) were kept at their current level, but CO2 emissions ceased once they have reached a level of 420 parts per million (ppm). (This is 15 ppm above the current level of 405 ppm, or just another five years of emissions at the current rate.)

The result was average warming of 1.35°C over the four models, above a late 19th century baseline. (It has been demonstrated that global average temperatures increase while CO2 is increasing, and then remain approximately constant until the end of the millennium despite zero further emissions.)

You know, when I was a kid, I kind of had this thought that maybe nobody was doing anything because there was nothing to be done. I was wrong on that, and it would still be unequivocally better the sooner we do this. But I wasn't entirely wrong, and here we are. If we stopped yesterday, this shit would last into the next millennium!?

If nothing else, at least it made me very conscious of enjoying everything I had.

[–] lapommedeterre 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ahh, I see. Interesting read/study. I wouldn't say they call it the Faustian bargain, but an example of a Faustian bargain. I suppose they could call it the Faustian bargain of GHG reduction, so that it doesn't usurp the term entirely, haha.

(Also I was referencing lyrics from the captain planet theme :P)

[–] captainjaneway 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] nexusband 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yes, we. While some are of the impression, that climate change is only because of a select few, it's because every single one of us consumers is to blame as well.

We have the option to buy climate friendly stuff, lots of times it's just more expensive or maybe a little bit inconvenient. Also, why does one need the next new iPhone after owning the last one for just over a year? Why do we have to eat Avocados in some cases a few times a day, that are shipped around the world and need heaps of water to grow? Same as Bananas or Strawberries in Winter...the list is very long. Same as plastic free vegetables - "the cucumber has a brown spot? Nope, not getting that, I demand it's spotless!" So companies wrap them in plastic.

If there's demand, companies will fulfill that demand, if there's no demand, companies stop doing that shit, because it doesn't make any money. Every single one of us is responsible in some way or another, even if the percentage is very miniscule.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I just wanted to say, this is a very good comment.

When people say it's not "we" and it's just a few people, or just companies, it always seems to me that they are - consciously or subconsciously - just making excuses for not having to actually do anything and hoping someone else will solve the problem for them. They want the problem to be solved, while not having to do anything or change their lifestyle.

There are some very obvious and clear examples of this; here's two of them:

  • Studies have shown most people are in favour of carbon taxes. But with carbon taxes, companies would just shift the extra cost onto the consumers by increasing prices. One thing affected by carbon tax, would be the price of gas itself. And when prices (especially gas prices) increase, that usually results in a lot of anger and protests. So why would any democratically elected politician ever implement a carbon tax? If they did, they would be voted out, and the next one to come in would just undo it.

  • Another obvious example, is meat. We know one of the major protagonists in CO2 emissions is animal farming. Red meat especially is responsible for a huge source of those emissions. And yet most people don't even wanna think about eating less meat, and they will still crack jokes about vegans and look at them sideways. And as for regulations regarding meat, the example from before still applies.

As you seem to be implying, what really needs to happen is a whole cultural shift. Trying to shift blame onto to a few people and hope they get the guillotine, won't change anything as long as people keep demanding all the same things because then someone else will come in to fulfil that demand. Whether we like it or not, we have to accept that it's the sum of all our actions that will determine the future, and our actions can influence other people's actions; therefore, one way or another, we are all responsible.

Sorry for typing some much at you since you're basically making the same point already, but I just felt like adding on.

[–] nexusband 2 points 1 year ago

To add to this, a simple example: Carbon Taxes are unavoidable. However, i wish people would stop arguing about what's better (EVs or Synthetic Fuels), because in the end, both have their use cases. It's a bit like iOS or Android. iOS and Android are very different, but also quite similar. I'm a HUGE petrol head and fossile fuels have to die as soon as possible and most governments around the world go about it completely wrong - i want to pay 2,50 Euro per Liter for 100% carbon neutral fuel, but i can't because no country around the world actually does this properly (except maybe Sweden with HVO Diesel)

Meat has to get simply more expensive and the market will regulate that - which is also going to happen with carbon taxes, but it's relatively slow.

[–] jarfil 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Most of the "we" who fucked around, are either already dead or dying of old age. They won't find out a thing.

The "we" who believed and trusted them... along those who didn't... yeah, those "we" will find out.

[–] DigitalTraveler42 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I wouldn't just put this on those generations, Exxon and the oil industry and their government dogs and very wealthy and powerful people and their minions are who deserves the most of the blame, the rest of us were powerless to stop it or brainwashed by the propaganda and disinformation being produced by the oil industry and their many allies, like Kenneth Hamm and the Young Earth Creationist movement, the American GOP, the British Tory's, Putin's Ruzzia, The Gulf states, the auto industry, and so many more.