this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2024
102 points (91.8% liked)
Europe
1468 readers
789 users here now
News and information from Europe ๐ช๐บ
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in [email protected]. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
(This list may get expanded when necessary.)
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @[email protected], @[email protected], or @[email protected].
founded 4 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The basic fact is that mining sucks and cars (or for that matter, most other technical products) are not environmentally friendly. However, the scale of these issues varies for different products. And to the point of scale:
I'll admit, the specifics and the source on this infographic are "trust me bro" because I forgot where I screenshotted it from. The takeaway is this, though: The necessary level of materials mining for electrified products and green energy does not compare to the level of fossil fuels drilling needed otherwise. In addition, battery materials can be recycled pretty well, so you only need to mine them once. Fossil fuels can not be recycled.
In any case, it's a good idea to question where all of the things you own and consume come from. It's a good thing to fight for supply-chain laws. However, detractors of green energies systematically exaggerate environmental impacts precisely because the technologies they propose are massively dirtier.
As to lithium in particular: Lithium from South America indeed has large environmental ramifications. However, most lithium is in fact mined in Australia in a completely different process.
I'm sceptical of electric cars because I believe trains are the better solution. No batteries at all, and no microlastic pollution (tyres). Also much less steel and other materials needed per person-kilometre, and the train cars last for tens of millions of kilometres, not just 200k or so.
Mass transit is better than cars. That's transparent. The point you were making previously though, was that electric cars may be worse than fossil-fuel burning cars. Why are you switching tack again?
I was asking, not making a point. I saw a documentary about the catastrophic environmental impact of lithium mining in Argentina. When I expressed a view critical of a conversion from ICE to EV I had a conversion to trains instead in mind