this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2024
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Malicious Compliance
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most hires don't get contracts
edit: in USA. we get offer letters, take it or leave it. your job duties can change on the fly, no "contract" to abide by. do the job or leave/get fired. there is some negotiating room, but not a lot
You must not be in america. We're lucky if we get breaks.
Land of the free and all that. Free from paid healthcare, a decent public education, a strong voice in government, an impartial justice system, employee rights... With all this freedom, it's hard to imagine wanting to be anywhere else.
Freedom to treat your employees however you want!
So if the employer suddenly decides to e.g. start paying you less, how do you prove how much your pay should be?
Previous pay stubs I suppose. Depending on the employer you may have something in writing. This typically wouldn't be contract if you're an employee without a union.
Someone does some digging and figures it out, and maybe five or so years later you get a check in the mail for an amount the lawyers agreed was correct.
There is nearly always a contract and the business will submit tax paperwork with your compensation to the IRS.
Under the table workers are illegal and on their own
still not a contract, that's just taxes.
I'm an American and I've always had a contract. Even in retail. Of course the contracts are all bullshit and just a waiver of my rights.
an employment offer letter is not a contract.
That's cute you believe that
My dude, that's exactly what I'm talking about. That's me in fact.
Even if I had a contract it wouldn't matter as I live in a right to work state, they can fire me at any point without warning or cause.
Having any real employment contract is NOT the norm here.
Non office jobs are more likely to be unionized and this have a contract than office jobs.
That's the type of thing non W2 self employed contractors or union members might have to lean back on, not rank and file full time office employees.
You get an offer letter that spells some of that out, but it isn't a binding contract.
Source
Title, start date and time, job title is about all that's on the "contract".
Rolls and responsabilities, not anything else, are not defined.
you don't have too, it's all pretty informal besides taxes and I'd verification. no contract says you have to do X or can't do X, it's more rules or policies, which are often very bendable. you either take it or leave it, they can fire you as they see fit. just as youre not required to give 2 weeks notice. so if you never ask for raise or promotion, good chance you may not get either.
I don't understand how people can live like this and not consider emigration.
To where?
Somewhere with a substantial pay reduction that does NOT want me there and likely requires I learn a new language in midlife.
I'm fine, it's not a hellscape here, there are problems everywhere.
Unfortunately, true. Countries in the Anglosphere generally don't allow immigration at all past the age of 50 or 55 unless you're married to a citizen or something, so odds are good you aren't even eligible to get in by the time you hit midlife.
And going outside of the Anglosphere requires becoming fluent in a language other than English - and even then it's not so easy to immigrate.
Of course, one can always head to Svalbard - they don't require work visas or residence visas, as per https://www.sysselmesteren.no/en/entry-and-residence/ - but it's pretty cold that close to the North Pole. Plus you'd have to learn Norwegian.
Coming from someone who successfully did exactly that - because it's quite tough. Immigration to most countries is quite competitive and expensive, with a lot of hoops to jump through. Those who can do it typically are much better off than the average Tommy and Gina (edit: Bon Jovi for those downvoters who don't get the reference).