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Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah killed after Beirut airstrikes (news.sky.com)

submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/world

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[+] FlowVoid -11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

What does that have to do with Lebanon?

Imagine if Mexico launched rockets at the US in 2003 to protest our pointless invasion of Iraq. It would not end well for Mexico.

[–] BMTea 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

"What does it have to do with America?" - you in 1939

[–] FlowVoid -5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Notice that the US didn't enter WW2 until it was attacked at Pearl Harbor.

And since then it hasn't launched rockets at military peers, even to stop a genocide. Just ask the families of tens of thousands of Chechens killed by Russians ~20 years ago.

If Hezbollah wanted to follow the modern American example, it would only start wars against weaker countries. Israel isn't one of them. Instead, Hezbollah is using the FAFO strategy.

[–] BMTea 4 points 1 month ago

Notice that the US didn't enter WW2 until it was attacked at Pearl Harbor.

That should he a point of shame, not pride. And it rings rather hollow to refer to a "Chechen genocide" when you're someone who thinks Gaza isn't one.

[–] Keeponstalin -4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Hezbollah wants to destroy Zionism, that includes ending Israeli occupation of any people, from Lebanese to Syrian to Palestinian. Hezbollah only exists because of Israel.

1982

The 1982 Lebanon war began on 6 June 1982, when Israel invaded again for the purpose of attacking the Palestine Liberation Organization. The Israeli army laid siege to Beirut. During the conflict, according to Lebanese sources, between 15,000 and 20,000 people were killed, mostly civilians.

On 16 February 1985, Shia Sheik Ibrahim al-Amin declared a manifesto in Lebanon, announcing a resistance movement called Hezbollah, whose goals included combating the Israeli occupation. During the South Lebanon conflict (1985–2000) the Hezbollah militia waged a guerrilla campaign against Israeli forces occupying Southern Lebanon and their South Lebanon Army proxies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Lebanese_conflict

Israeli Withdrawal

Throughout the painstaking process of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, Hizballah was at pains to declare its commitment to recovering the last millimeter of Lebanese territory, but it also acknowledged that it would not act hastily to reinitiate violence. In sum, Hizballah's behavior and deference to state authority have worked to its political advantage. It reaped recognition in an unprecedented meeting between Nasrallah and UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who praised Hizballah's restraint and its promise of cooperation. The meeting with Annan offers a remarkable contrast with Hizballah's earlier days, when it was hostile to the UN and especially to the UN force in the south.

Without an agreement between Syria and Israel, there will be little pressure on Hizballah to disarm. Syria's calculated strategy is to allow Hizballah to serve as a constant reminder of the consequences of continuing to occupy the Golan Heights.This is a role that Hizballah is happy to play, given its enmity toward Israel. At the same time, it remains profoundly aware of the political costs of bringing destruction down on the heads of its supporters, and this further reduces the prospect that Hizballah will initiate attacks on Israel

https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.2307/2676479

2006

The doctrine is named after the Dahiya suburb of Beirut, where the Lebanese paramilitary group Hezbollah has its headquarters, which the Israeli military leveled during its assault on Lebanon in the summer of 2006 that killed nearly 1,000 civilians, about a third of them children, and caused enormous damage to the country’s civilian infrastructure, including power plants, sewage treatment plants, bridges, and port facilities.

It was formulated by then-General Gadi Eisenkot when he was Chief of Northern Command. As he explained in 2008 referring to a future war on Lebanon: "What happened in the Dahiya quarter of Beirut in 2006 will happen in every village from which Israel is fired on… We will apply disproportionate force on it (village) and cause great damage and destruction there. From our standpoint, these are not civilian villages, they are military bases… This is not a recommendation. This is a plan. And it has been approved.” Eisenkot went on to become chief of the general staff of the Israeli military before retiring in 2019.

While it became official Israeli military doctrine after Israel’s 2006 attack on Lebanon, Israel’s military has used disproportionate force and targeted Palestinian, Lebanese, and other civilians since Israel was established in 1948 based on the ethnic cleansing of indigenous Palestinians, including dozens of massacres to force them to flee for their lives.

The Dahiya Doctrine & Israel’s Use of Disproportionate Force

2007 - Present

Until recently, the border had been relatively quiet. Occasional rockets or drones crossed from Lebanon into Israel without leading to serious escalation, while Israel violated Lebanese airspace more than 22,000 times from 2007 to 2022.

While the withdrawal was certified by the United Nations, Lebanon disputed it, arguing that the Shebaa Farms was part of its territory, and not part of the Syrian Golan Heights, which Israel continues to occupy.

So there are two separate issues here that lead to the current dispute: the first is that Israel occupies the Golan Heights and treats it as its own territory in violation of international law, and the second is that there was already a pre-existing disagreement between Syria and Lebanon over the border, prior to the Israeli occupation.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/13/why-is-there-a-disputed-border-between-lebanon-and-israel

[–] FlowVoid 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Canada has a longstanding border dispute too, with the US.

Imagine if Canada launched rockets at the US, because of the border dispute and also because Canada believed US arms shipments to Israel violated international law. It would not end well for Canada.

[–] Keeponstalin -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

In this scenario, who is America ethnically cleansing?

[–] FlowVoid -5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I've been told Biden is guilty of genocide, is that no longer true?

[–] Keeponstalin 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yes, the US is currently aiding and abetting Israel's genocide. In violation of International humanitarian law and domestic US Law.

Amnesty

In a new research briefing submitted to the U.S. government today as part of the National Security Memorandum on Safeguards and Accountability with Respect to Transferred Defense Articles and Defense Services (NSM-20) process, Amnesty International USA details civilian deaths and injuries with U.S.-made weapons, as well as other cases that highlight an overall pattern of unlawful attacks by Israeli forces. The briefing also details practices by Israeli forces inconsistent with best practices for mitigating civilian harm and provides clear examples of the misuse of defense articles, the commission of torture, and the use of unlawful lethal force. Lastly, the briefing also details the denial of humanitarian assistance to the civilian population of Gaza.

“It’s shocking that the Biden administration continues to hold that the government of Israel is not violating international humanitarian law with U.S.-provided weapons when our research shows otherwise and international law experts disagree,” said Amanda Klasing, National Director for Government Relations with Amnesty International USA. “The International Court of Justice found the risk of genocide in Gaza is plausible and ordered provisional measures. President Biden must end U.S. complicity with the government of Israel’s grave violations of international law and immediately suspend the transfer of weapons to the government of Israel.”

“The evidence is clear and overwhelming: the government of Israel is using U.S.-made weapons in violation of international humanitarian and human rights law, and in a manner that is inconsistent with U.S. law and policy, said Klasing. “In order to follow U.S. laws and policies, the United States must immediately suspend any transfer of arms to the government of Israel.”

https://www.amnestyusa.org/press-releases/u-s-made-weapons-used-by-government-of-israel-in-violation-of-international-law-and-u-s-law/

[–] FlowVoid 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

And if Canada agreed with you and started launching rockets at the US on that basis, it would suffer the consequences. Much like Hezbollah.

[–] Keeponstalin 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If the US historically colonized Vancouver in the past, until an Armed Canadian Resistance forced the US to withdrawal, and the US continued to occupy and ethnicity cleanse let's say Alaska (if Alaska was not a part of the US in this scenario), and that armed group would continue to resist as long as the US occupied indigenous people, then yes. The genocidal US regime would extend it's aggression to Canada once again

[–] FlowVoid 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Let's try an actual historical example.

Russia historically colonized Lithuania in the past, until the dissolution of the Soviet Union forced Russians to withdraw, but Russia continued to occupy and ethnically cleanse Kaliningrad (formerly the German city of Konigsberg).

What do you suppose would happen to Lithuania if it started launching rockets at Russia in an effort to decolonize Kaliningrad? Same as Hezbollah: FAFO

[–] Keeponstalin -2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

And if Russia also had plans to recolonize Lithuania as part of a greater Russia, should they fight back or should they dissolve their military and hope Russia doesn't, despite that they have in the past and the notion of a greater Russia is popular within the Russian military and government officials?

[–] FlowVoid 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Plans are not an act of war. China has plans to take Taiwan. The US has made detailed plans to attack everyone, even Canada, if necessary.

If Russia fired actual rockets at Lithuania, that's an act of war and Lithuania would have a right to defend itself.

[–] Keeponstalin -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

In this scenario they would have, at residential areas to get civilians to evacuate

[–] FlowVoid 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hezbollah started firing rockets at residential areas in Israel back in October. That's an act of war.

[–] Keeponstalin 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Israel has fired rockets at Lebanon before then too. And before that repeatedly violated the airspace

2007 - Present

Until recently, the border had been relatively quiet. Occasional rockets or drones crossed from Lebanon into Israel without leading to serious escalation, while Israel violated Lebanese airspace more than 22,000 times from 2007 to 2022.

While the withdrawal was certified by the United Nations, Lebanon disputed it, arguing that the Shebaa Farms was part of its territory, and not part of the Syrian Golan Heights, which Israel continues to occupy.

So there are two separate issues here that lead to the current dispute: the first is that Israel occupies the Golan Heights and treats it as its own territory in violation of international law, and the second is that there was already a pre-existing disagreement between Syria and Lebanon over the border, prior to the Israeli occupation.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/13/why-is-there-a-disputed-border-between-lebanon-and-israel

[–] FlowVoid 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

No, the first attacks came from Hezbollah, in solidarity with the Hamas attack. The first casualty was Israeli, thus starting the current cycle of escalation.

[–] Keeponstalin 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Even if you ignore the history and just act like it started after October 7th, or that Hezbollah should not care about Israel indiscriminately bombing Civilians in Gaza, Israel still drew first blood when it comes to Hezbollah

The initial strikes on the 8th were on bases and both had no causalities

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/8/israel-hezbollah-exchange-fire-raising-regional-tensions

The next day, Hezbollah fired at Israel in response to Israel killing 3 Hezbollah members from bombardment of Southern Lebanon

The Lebanese armed group Hezbollah has fired a barrage of rockets into Israel after at least three of its members were killed during an Israeli bombardment of southern Lebanon amid soaring tensions on Israel’s northern border.

[–] FlowVoid -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hezbollah should not care about Israel indiscriminately bombing Civilians in Gaza

Lots of people around the world care about what is happening to civilians in Gaza. That doesn't mean they want to kill Israelis.

If Hezbollah wants to show how much it cares by launching rockets at Israel, then it will find out how much Israel cares about being attacked by rockets.

[–] Keeponstalin 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Most people don't have the same history with Palestine and Israeli forces. And no, they don't want genocide, that's incredibly disingenuous. Not to mention you never apply that same lens about aggression to the actions of Israel. I don't agree with Hezbollah at all when it comes to a solution, I think Israelis and Palestinians need to have a Secular One-State with equal rights for both, displacing Israelis is not a solution anymore than displacing Palestinians.

Anti-Zionism and Israel (Chapter 7)

Hizbu’llah’s reluctance to grant Israel recognition is rooted in its rendition of the origins of the Israeli state, which it unequivocally portrays as a ‘rape’ or ‘usurpation’ of Palestinian land, there by rendering it a state which ‘is originally based on aggression’. By extension, the continued existence of the Israeli state constitutes ‘an act of aggression’, insofar as it represents a perpetuation of the original act of aggression. Therefore, Hizbu’llah ‘does not know of anything called Israel’. It only knows a land called ‘occupied Palestine’. In fact, the party never refers to the state of Israel as such, but to ‘occupied Palestine’ or ‘the Zionist entity’.

pg 134

Based on the party’s delegitimisation of the Israeli state, its excoria-tion of Israeli state and society and its emphasis on the Zionist essence of both, certain existential elements of Hizbu’llah’s conflict with Israel can be readily discerned. Upon closer examination of these elements, the following three existential themes emerge: the party’s legitimisation of the use of violence against an essentially Zionist society; its rejection of the notion of a negotiated peace settlement with the Israeli state; and its pursuit of the liberation of Palestine.

pg 142

According to the party, this aspiration to return ‘every grain of Palestinian soil’ to its rightful owners necessitates Israel’s ‘oblit-eration from existence’. Put simply, the reconstitution of one state is contingent upon the annihilation of another. The only way that the Palestinians can return to Jerusalem, and the ‘original Palestineof 1948’ generally, is for all Jews, with the exception of those native to Palestine, to ‘leave this region and return to the countries from whence they came’

pg 162

Hizbu'llah: Politics and Religion by Amal Saad-Ghorayeb

[–] FlowVoid -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Not to mention you never apply that same lens about aggression to the actions of Israel.

Sure I can. For example, Israel attacked Iran with an airstrike. That's an act of war. When Iran retaliated, nobody pretended the victim was the aggressor like they are now with Israel and Hezbollah.

I think Israelis and Palestinians need to have a Secular One-State with equal rights for both

Unfortunately I think that would be very difficult in practice. How to ensure it remains secular?

[–] Keeponstalin 1 points 1 month ago

People are pretending that Israel is the victim. A victim of blowback, sure. But ignoring that Israel is the one doing settler Colonialism, an Apartheid, and now a genocide in Gaza for nearly a year, does not magically make them the victim