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this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2024
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You realise Biden's current stance on Israel is unpopular by a vast majority of the Democratic voter base, right?
I couldn't find much, but this poll seems to suggest the majority supports the US position on Israel. It's surprisingly bipartisan.
Do you have another source maybe? This poll is from June, maybe you found something more recent?
That poll is about opinions on the US's role, and says nothing about Israel.
It's an absolutely bonkers result considering the US's decades of destabilizing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets in other countries like Yemen and Syria, alliance/support of terrorist states like Saudi Arabia and Israel, and imperial/extractive attitude that has been the primary force destabilizing the region in my lifetime.
The idea that ANYONE can look at the middle east and have a positive view of America's role is disgusting. America's disastrous 21st century foreign policy is the primary reason that the entire world has become so destabilized. America is a terrorist state and the US military machine is the single biggest threat to human survival. Stopping the US at all costs is the most important thing that we can do to protect the biological experiment of the current ecosystem upon which we depend.
The only reason I am considering voting for Trump in the fall (compared to the handful of reasons why I am considering Harris) is that four more years of chaos may finally destroy the American War Machine and the disaster that is American foreign policy.
Four more years of Trump directly puts my life in danger, but if it leads to this country self-destructing I'm personally willing to make that sacrifice. Anything to cripple our criminal war machine. What good are our rights and liberties if the depend on a war machine that is willing to risk the habitability of our planet? If America collapses, with it will fall the major fuel of the arms race. If the leopards have to eat my face for my country to finally get put in its place, I'll proudly try to pet the kitty.
Ideally, I want America to be a functional democracy that respects and promotes civil rights and liberties around the globe. I have never had the option to vote for such an America. In my lifetime I have never seen America take actions that imply that these are the values of our government. The options are to vote for the competent criminal who will directly and purposefully undermine the habitability of our planet, or the incompetent one who may cause more damage in the short-term due to his bumbling but may be better in the long run by removing America's destructive influence on the world's stage as we turn inwards to fight a civil war. Maybe a civil war will cause us to reassert what we claim are our values, and I'll finally live in a country I can respect,
I'm pretty genuinely torn in this election, because I'm willing to sacrifice my personal safety for what I see as a net positive in the world in the long run. I'd rather be hopeful that we have a path to fix America. I'd rather be hopeful that America could be a country that promotes democracy and civil liberties. America as it stands is not a democracy, and we have no liberty. America is dead. Do we keep voting for the parasites, or do we vote for the incinerator to protect others?
But what if Trump and pals manage to stabilize their fascist state. You will never have another free election (Putin style instead of the propaganda of billionaires and theocrats). The whole world will be fucked and all on your coin toss.
It is for once too dangerous to leave to chance. You need to get Harris in, and Trump and the corrupt supreme justices in jail. THEN from the ground up build a new political party for the people and the planet.
The whole world is already fucked. Trump taking over will only fuck America faster and give the rest of the world a chance to not get fucked by America.
For your optimistic scenario, do we have the time for all of that? Does the middle east? Does the world? Is that even a possible outcome of all this? Or will it all just blow over and we'll pretend like nothing happened (see four years of Biden) while Harris just doubles down on world annihilation? She's promising to be a republican, I'm just taking her at her word.
Worked out really great in 2016, didn't it? Absolutely brainless take with no basis in reality.
It kind of did!
In 2017, people got mad and started taking action and taking to the streets before complacency set in. This unrest kept ramping up and took another big jump in 2020. What took the wind out of the sails of people taking action and demanding change was Biden getting elected, allowing most people to fall into complacency while Biden did nothing to fix our problems and instead got us involved in multiple overseas conflicts.
With Trump in office, the people resist. That's what happened last time, and the people rising up and finding unity through resistance seems to me the only way to overturn America's broken and indefensible systems. The question is who will be resisting/overthrowing, and what will they institute in their place?
If Harris wins and the Trumpers are overthrowing, the options for outcomes of the ensuing war are the mildly fascist status quo, or the super-fascist usurpers. I don't have high hopes that many people will stand up to fight in this case.
If Trump wins then those who love democracy and liberty and equality will be the ones who rise up and resist, fighting for the best of these options.
As I said in my first post, this is the only reason that I consider Trump. I have a whole handful of reasons to consider Harris.
I kinda remember this pandemic response team we used to have... Good thing we didn't and currently still don't have an ongoing pandemic killing people worldwide!
People resisted and got a corrupt Supreme Court, dismantled consumer, environmental, worker, and abortion protections, an attempted coup, and somehow we all treat Covid like it wasn't fucking Trump's fault.
Shut the actual fuck up, you accelerationist piece of shit. Congratulations on your willingness to sacrifice people who didn't agree to be sacrificed, I'd rather keep more people alive, Anerica and the world got pretty fucked by Trump.
I'm not an accelerationist. I'm a realist.
America is already dead.
A civil war is coming.
2025 will be another 2020 no matter what happens in November.
I don't want the dead weight of a dead government on the side of democracy. I want the side of democracy to be free to invent something new. I don't want a broken down old democracy fighting against a modern authoritarian. I want the authoritarians to be saddled with the complacency and inertia of the state. I don't want the authoritarians to be free to invent something newer and more powerful that can bring our doddering democracy to its knees. Our government is old and has been stripped by Reagan/Bush/Trump. It is a liability to be running it.
People are about to die. A lot of them. I want democracy to have its best chance of coming out on top. That means that the people have to want it.
I'm sorry, you're an accelerationist, this civil war bullshit has been a conservative fantasy for a long time now.
and it's just as idiotic for someone on the left to call for it as it is evil intentions on the right, we have seen this over and over and over again, hell it's part of why every mass murdering movement of fascists and authoritarians came to be in the 20th century, the fucking holocaust literally could not have happened without people like you in the German political sphere
I'm not an accelerationist, and I'm not calling for civil war.
I just see that it's coming.
accept it's not.
I don't know if I can just accept that it's not.
I know a lot of people who will be rightfully outraged if Trump wins. If Trump wins, it will be due to election interference and from stopping people from voting. He may win the electoral college, but is unlikely to win the popular vote. There are many reasons to see a Trump victory as illegitimate. If Trump wins there is a very strong chance of a civil war.
If Harris wins, there may be another Jan 6th-like action. Without Trump leading the MAGA movement, all that organized hate becomes a target for a more competent leader to harness. There is a chance that that might spiral into a larger conflict.