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Which alternatives to the Framework laptop? (lemmy.aisteru.ch)

submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/technology

42 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I am looking to buy a new laptop, and I'd be interested in the Framework laptop. What I like are the replaceability and upgradeability of parts, and the fact it is not (to my knowledge) tied to any large corporation.

However, they are not available for Switzerland, and there is no telling if and when they will be. I'm not dead set on having replaceable parts, but I'd at least like to have something that would not cause issues if I were to install a Linux distrib' on it (I had a Surface Pro, and had trouble setting up a Mint on it due to missing drivers for the keyboard). And helping smaller companies is a nice plus.

What would your recommendations be?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I strongly encourage taking a look through ifixit's website as a surprising number of laptops these days are repairable in that regard. I mean, I was doing a quick google to get an example of a laptop they have a guide on and was shocked to see fricking Microsoft Surface screens of alll things are front and center in their webstore.

As for customizability? I can definitely see use cases for that and there have been times I questioned just how much I would be willing to pay to get a headset jack on a modern laptop. But I very much agree with Wendell's joke over at Level1Techs that those mostly exist for him to get bored during a meeting and disassemble his laptop. After the initial configuration you are unlikely to really touch them ever again (outside of niche cases).

And... years ago I learned the glory that is USB hubs. Dongles sucked. But even a 20 dollar anker hub/dongle turns one USB C hub into 4 As, an ethernet port, an audio jack, and an ethernet port. Having a dongle/hub dangling out is a bit annoying (but honestly a closer match to me plugging it in at my work desk) but... I don't think it is 250 USD annoying.

Like I said, conceptually I love the concept of Framework but every time I math out what they actually bring to the table... yeah. And it increasingly feels like there is a strong marketing campaign (can't imagine which investor contributed to that...) to misrepresent the modern day laptop market.

I will say that the best argument I have seen is that the "real" usb c ports are recessed and only accessed through the Totally Not Dongles. Which means it is a lot harder to break/bend a port that would require soldering to repair. I... don't know if I agree that is a 250 USD feature and have concerns over the implications of the design on the mobo but that is the kind of thing that would be nice for more vendors to adopt. Even if the ports themselves aren't "modular", but just to have an easily swapped board/module in the event someone drops their laptop on a thumb drive a hundred times.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

All excellent points. The trajectory of the current laptop market is the MacBook. One system on a chip with integrated RAM and an SSD. These are light, high performance, and long battery life. Repairability is difficult and upgrades harder. This type of laptop is good enough for most people and sells great.

Having a highly configurable machine is the opposite of the MacBook. There’s probably a market for the Framework laptop. It fully leans into being configurable and repairable. That gives the user a bigger sense of control. They don’t feel dependent on huge corporations. It’s not just a feeling either. Other companies don’t want their customers to repair or exchange anything on their laptops and will void the warranty if you do it. Framework is the opposite as it encourages their customers to assemble and replace parts themselves.

Customization has become huge in the PC market, especially among gamers. Framework is smart to try and fill this individualist niche. The marketing works well, just like you said. I find the programmable LED modules quite charming for example. The option to buy the laptop as a kit for me to assemble myself also sounds fun.

Empowerment is what the marketing sells to their customers. Few people really need this product, but many find it desirable.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Agree that the macbook IS the "future" (really present), same as it was with phones, because a single monolithic SOC is much easier to manufacture and has massive power and energy benefits. That said, I do like that "new" PCAMM2 format since it does wonders for making even those kinds of systems upgradable... to the extent you would upgrade.

And a macbook with a lot less glue and signed parts is kind of what I think we SHOULD be striving for.

That said, gonna nitpick a bit

Having a highly configurable machine is the opposite of the MacBook. There’s probably a market for the Framework laptop. It fully leans into being configurable and repairable.

Again, define "configurable" and "repairable" because the former is buying dongles and the latter is not too dissimilar from other (non-apple) laptops on the market

That gives the user a bigger sense of control. They don’t feel dependent on huge corporations.

Ah, so we are paying the security blanket tax. Farmework makes me feel warm and fuzzy so I should give them money?

It’s not just a feeling either. Other companies don’t want their customers to repair or exchange anything on their laptops and will void the warranty if you do it. Framework is the opposite as it encourages their customers to assemble and replace parts themselves.

Again, actually check out the landscape. Apple are fucking assholes and always will be. But when even frigging Microsoft is making fairly repairable devices (lots of glue but https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+4+Screen+Replacement/60348 )?

Mostly it sounds like you are reading that marketing schpiel I alluded to. "Companies aren't your friends and all want to fuck you in the ass. Except Framework. We are your friends"

Customization has become huge in the PC market, especially among gamers. Framework is smart to try and fill this individualist niche. The marketing works well, just like you said. I find the programmable LED modules quite charming for example.

Probably the biggest thing that happened to PC gaming specifically in the past decade is the Steam Deck. Which is a minimally customizable handheld computer

The option to buy the laptop as a kit for me to assemble myself also sounds fun.

And good for you. Personally, I would rather do my zany projects with random crap I got off ebay or build some gunpla. But... I am not going to tempt fate by saying I would never even consider buying a 1k USD model kit.

Empowerment is what the marketing sells to their customers. Few people really need this product, but many find it desirable.

On that I 100% agree. I just... wouldn't call that a positive.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Farmework makes me feel warm and fuzzy so I should give them money?

Yes, that’s what they’re going for. A personal computer is a machine people spend a lot of time with and develop an emotional attachment to. People can buy this laptop and gain status among their peers by supporting the ideas of repairability, being against planned obsolescence, for Linux, and open standards. Owning this laptop can make you feel as part of a movement for a better world.

Sure their claims might not fully hold up to scrutiny. However that doesn’t matter much if you’re emotionally invested in the ideas.

You don’t have to give them money as their product doesn’t seem to be for you. Your priorities are different.

I myself use a MacBook Air with a big ass thunderbolt dock on my desk attached to it. Apple as a corporation sucks for many reasons, but they make some good products.

Overall Framework laptops reminds me of the Fairphone.