this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2024
598 points (97.5% liked)

World News

39039 readers
2661 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]

Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
quinten
NewsAutoMod
jordanlund
Tenthrow
little_cow
lemmyAtom
FlyingSquid
598
Let us show Putin we have ability to hit targets deep inside Russia, Ukraine urges west (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 2 months ago by MicroWave to c/world
120 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Ukraine wants permission from the west to use long-range Storm Shadow missiles to destroy targets deep inside Russia, believing this could force Moscow into negotiating an end to the fighting.

Senior figures in Kyiv have suggested that using the Anglo-French weapons in a “demonstration attack” will show the Kremlin that military sites near the capital itself could be vulnerable to direct strikes.

The thinking, according to a senior government official, is that Russia will consider negotiating only if it believes Ukraine had the ability “to threaten Moscow and St Petersburg”. This is a high-risk strategy, however, and does not so far have the support of the US.

Ukraine has been lobbying for months to be allowed to use Storm Shadow against targets inside Russia, but with little success. Nevertheless, as its army struggles on the eastern front, there is a growing belief that its best hope lies in counter-attack.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] lennybird -4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah I watched most of the convention, particularly the hostage's parents speak, their CNN interview after, and Harris's remarks of course. My two biggest complaints of the entire thing were:

  1. They did not reach out to Rashida Tlaib, pay acknowledgement to the Palestinian protesters, or let the doctor speak.

  2. Harris went into pretty evocative imagery when describing the brutality of October 7th, but became far more vague in describing the devastation and murder in Gaza. I'm not as scorched-earth as many of my fellow pro-Palestinians but even I saw the double-standard there.

And ALL the platform had to do was frame this entirely as, "Above all else, we are Pro-Civilian," which is the exact same tact I take with anyone I argue with on either side of this conflict.

I have a lot of respect to the Hostage's parents who honestly did go above and beyond what they needed to in terms of acknowledging the atrocities in Gaza.

What I've been trying to advocate for is, especially during this late in the election, focus on changing the minds of your fellow Americans. No campaign this late in the race will ever turn into an "advocacy mode" and take a position especially on a controversial topic that gets ahead of the polls. In other words, every single position from here until November will be crafted in lieu of what they see in their internal polling numbers especially with battleground low-info swing-voters who will decide this election. Thus, if you want to see continued evolution on this issue by the administration/campaign, you have to first influence the polls. So go on social media and argue with everyone you can sincerely and bring the brutal reality to the American people. We already see this to some extent if we compare the words and actions of the Biden administration the days following October 7th, versus now, correlated against public support for Israel.

[–] Olgratin_Magmatoe 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I agree with pretty much you've said. Though I do want to add on to something.

Thus, if you want to see continued evolution on this issue by the administration/campaign, you have to first influence the polls. So go on social media and argue with everyone you can sincerely and bring the brutal reality to the American people.

I've taken a similar-ish strategy to this. The Biden campaign and then the Kamala campaign has been emailing me like 8 times a day every day asking for campaign contributions. And every single time I respond back with imagery of the brutality that is being enacted upon palestinians. Unsurprisingly they haven't responded to a single one. I'm probably just sending shit to their spam folder.

But yeah, public opinion needs to shift on this. And I think it will, though it's gonna be a few decades. You may already be familiar with this, but there is a common pattern in student/young adult lead protests, and social rights focused protests, is that in that a few decades after the protests, it turns out that public perception is retroactively on their side.

This happened with the civil rights movement, vietnam, we've seen this with LGBT rights, etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Student_protests_in_the_United_States

Take a look at these, and most of them are now popularly supported, especially the older they are.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper_spray_incident

This one in particular is only a decade old at this point, and the imagery behind this did far more for than any individual protest ever could have done.

So I think eventually the pro palestinian student lead protests will have an effect and be seen as the right side of history. Unfortunately it's gonna take a long while, and in the meanwhile a lot of palestinians are gonna die. So all we can do is try to speed up that process of changing public perception.

[–] lennybird -3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah thanks for the cordial discussion.

Oh yeah no doubt mass student protests have very often fallen on the correct side of history and there is no question they will be on the right side now. While it can be used as a point to get media time to break through echo-chambers, I worry that advocates are falling for a sort of pattern where the target of their frustration is Biden/Harris where instead they should be explaining to their out-of-touch aunts and uncles, "Have you seen the Palestinian father whose twins and wife were murdered by indiscriminate bombings by Israel? Did you know..." and so on... Of course then polls change; then administrations respond. But targeting the administration when their hands are effectively tied in reflection to polls puts the cart before the horse in my view. After all, popular policies tend to get adopted by both parties when they aren't controversial (e.g., the no taxing of tips thing, regardless of how good it actually is...)

I know Putin's long-term plans drastically differ, depending on a Trump or Harris administration. I assume that goes for Bibi as well.

[–] Olgratin_Magmatoe 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yeah thanks for the cordial discussion.

Of course. It's always nice to have a polite discussion. It's hard to have them, especially in an election year.

And again, I agree with everything you said.

where instead they should be explaining to their out-of-touch aunts and uncles

I agree, though the individual strategy there is very case by case basis. I know for me, personally, my parents wouldn't change their mind ever. I could show them gorey picture after gorey picture sandwiched with mass graves, and they'd be unphased.

It's a tough situation when your family is so stubborn.