this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2024
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United States | News & Politics
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What's your solution then? Sit around sniffing your own farts and let the fascists win?
nobody has the right answers; but we all know what the wrong ones are because we keep doing them and here we are.
You mean letting Trump/Bush/etc win because Biden/Obama/Clinton didn't give us everything we wanted fast enough? At least there's progress under Democrats.
Democrats aren't perfect by any means, but both sides aren't the same either and in our current system one or the other is going to win.
it's more like didn't give us anything we needed.
Also 0.8 worth of good presidents out of 46 is worse odds than a broken clock but, atleast with a broken clock, you're guaranteed 2 good intervals on a regular bases.
and that's why they're not the right answers; it's a systems that intentionally setup to give you shittiest choices and forces you to abide by them to make sure that you never get a good president; merely a very slightly less worse one while simultaneously teaching you to despise anyone who tries to point this out.
meanwhile other places have much better voting systems and our system has so americanized you that you don't believe that those systems can also work here or, atleast, you've been conditioned to believe that we MUST select either a republican or a democrat.
A clock that keeps perfect time never reads the correct time. Non sequitur, I just think it's interesting.
Democrats are not giving us anything we wanted, there is no progress, just continued Capitalist decline.
They are. They absolutely are. One gives you all the social conservatism that the ruling class will permit you to have, and one gives you all the social progressiveness that the ruling class will permit you to have. They both work for the exact same interests. Whether or not the state allows gay marriage or abortion is totally irrelevant to the ruling class, has zero effect on their lives, and they give and take these things cynically not to advance a political cause but just to keep us scurrying back and forth, oscillating between panic and ersatz vindication, giving cover to allow them to shape the world 50 years from now into anything they please without any meaningful oversight or democratic input.
That's absolute bullshit.
There was a story within the last twelve hours about the Biden administration investing millions of dollars in a steel mill in Ohio with quotes from the workers about how they're still voting for Trump.
Trump, on the other hand, was willing to let people in Democrat heavy cities and states die during COVID to get a political win.
Try feeding your shit to someone Kushner didn't try to kill to win his father-in-law a couple extra votes.
They are appealing to different people with different methods, but their ultimate ends are more aligned with each other than with you and I.
No, that seems to be what you want to do, the fascists are already winning and you still cling to the endless right-wing slide.
I advocate for organizing. Join an org, be that a union, a party, a Mutual Aid center, whatever. Get organized and start building dual power. If all you do is vote once every four years, then you are part of the reason why the Democrats continue to slide to the right as the GOP pushes farther to the right.
You can do all of that and still vote for the blue team.
We all need to organize and work to strengthen unions. We need to do that. So the choice is just do we want to do that under a blue team presidency or a red team/MAGA presidency
Blue team seems much more currently amenable to unionization. So that seems like it would be the superior conditions for us to organize under.
Sure, you can vote for the less extreme fascists. The problem that we run into is that liberals just vote and then go to brunch for 2 years before voting again. Leftist movements died down under Biden and the Democrats moved to the right, no longer is Medicare for All being pushed for, as an example.
Sure. Unions would be a good start, though not even close to sufficent. The Nordics are very highly unionized, yet still see sliding worker protections and Capitalist decay.
Are they really? Some members of Blue team, sure, but it's important to recognize that unions come from force, not from government protections. The dems crack down on any worker movements just as quickly as the Reps.
Actual organization among the workers is far more important.
I agree. But the question is just do we want to organize under the blue team or under the red team/MAGA team.
I agree those are bad options. And I agree with the concern that many libs will just check out and go back to brunch if Kamala wins.
So it depends if you think Trump would be so bad that he would remove the little that is left of the ability of the working class to organize. We would become similar to Hungary under Orban in terms of centralized power with a deferential judiciary. That seems like it would be worse than 4 more years of Biden+'s blue team nonsense
Neither team being in power will fundamentally change the dynamic of the labor struggle, states will continue to lean in the direction they are and class warfare will accelerate.
Unfortunately, this has already happened under Biden, and some liberals are even pushing against leftism harder than fascism at this point.
If Trump was that powerful, then the vote won't matter in the first place. The dynamics won't change. Conditions may falter a bit more, but the Dems and the Reps are still continuing the same trajectory.