this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2024
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[–] Crismus 8 points 3 months ago (25 children)

Why do the democrat leadership always push for right-wing causes, when they aren't in the Republican Party for a reason?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (24 children)

"Democrat leadership"

Fascinating

[–] Crismus 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The person being nominated is considered the leader of the party. At least it has for as long asbI can remember. Number 2, while I understand she may not have said those exact words, Biden's border bill is basically a Republican bill that only was killed to make Democrats look bad.

Tightening the amnesty and refugee quotas won't make it better. Acknowledging that this whole border crisis is manufactured would do more.

Fox and the rest love to lie about how much asylum seekers get paid, bur will never give that money to the people that they promote are missing out.

Finally, moving to the right is normal campaign strategy, but there was no push to the left during the Primary stage. This is just going from center right to more right. Because Biden never was on the left.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The bill in question gave billions to ICE, CPB, US martials, and others to hire more officers and increase detention capacity.

If the purpose of the bill was to process immigrants so they could legally stay in the country and get jobs with papers and all, they wouldn't spend billions building cages for the immigrants in the country or shut the border down, making things worse for the ones already stuck outside the border.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The bill in question gave billions to ICE, CPB,

True

US martials

I feel like this part isn’t true. Is this true? Idk, maybe it is.

hire more officers

True

and increase detention capacity

Interesting that you don’t like this

I talked way up at the top of the thread about more details of what’s going on at the border and why the bill is the way that it is. I would ask you the same thing I asked before: What should Biden/Harris do?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I feel like this part isn’t true. Is this true? Idk, maybe it is.

I linked the bill, page 64

64 SEN. APPRO.

1UNITED STATES MARSHALS SERVICE

2FEDERAL PRISONER DETENTION For an additional amount for ‘‘United States Mar-

3shals Service—Federal Prisoner Detention’’,

4$210,000,000, to remain available until expended, for de-

5tention costs due to enforcement activities along the south-

6ern and northern borders

What should Biden/Harris do?

If you find yourself in control of the machine that crushes orphans, your primary concern shouldn't be making sure it has all the resources it needs to function.

Appoint a head of ICE who will fire every single officer and sell off or destroy every asset. Any remaining budget can be used to process claims and arrange housing/job placement for immigrants.

End all economic warfare and other hostile actions against Caribbean/Central/South American countries. You can't torpedo Mexico's economy via NAFTA, and ask why you're getting a flood of Mexicans, then torpedo Venezuela's economy via sanctions and ask why you're getting a flood of Venezuelans, torpedo Nicaragua's economy via coup, etc.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

4$210,000,000, to remain available until expended,

Ah, got it. Fair play.

Appoint a head of ICE who will fire every single officer and sell off or destroy every asset.

He tries, congress and the courts say no because that’s not how that works. (Just as they did for way more reasonable things than this that he tried to order to have happen. That’s the whole thing with Project 2025 is to undo the guard rails that prevent presidents from simply making massive changes to the system on a whim.)

What should he try next?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

He can tell the courts to fuck off, and as far as congress goes, he only needs 50%+1 in the senate to approve an appointment, and he's more than capable of whipping that vote given that the organization that sends migrants to camps is unpopular among dem constituents.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

He can tell the courts to fuck off

Ah yes! I mean, you’re right; he can tell whoever he wants, whatever he wants, as Trump demonstrated. The issue is, what would happen with his orders to ICE to start doing things that were illegal as far as existing statutes about what ICE is supposed to do. And then that in the face of an order by the courts to do definitely obey the statutes.

Biden would probably be fine. He might lose some support in the election but whatever. Whoever implemented those orders would probably join the handful of Trump administration members who did the same and wound up in federal prison for it. Eventually, people would notice the pattern of their coworkers going to prison for obeying Biden’s instructions and stop listening to him. Nixon and Trump tested the boundaries of this system with varying levels of success, and a bunch of people in their orbits went to prison and a bunch more than that stopped listening to them.

So. Biden tells the courts to fuck off, people go to prison, the remaining staff do not obey his instructions as far as what ICE should do, because they don’t want to also go to prison. The border conditions remain a bone chilling nightmare. What should he try next?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

start doing things that were illegal as far as existing statutes about what ICE is supposed to do

There's nothing illegal about firing ICE officers and selling off assets, they do that all the time.

The border conditions remain a bone chilling nightmare

Decreasing ICE and CPB's capacity to make things worse is better than nothing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

There's nothing illegal about firing ICE officers and selling off assets, they do that all the time.

There is absolutely something illegal about ignoring a judge who is telling you that what you are doing doesn’t match the statutes that describe how ICE is supposed to operate.

Decreasing ICE and CPB's capacity to make things worse is better than nothing.

What? No it isn’t (or, not automatically). Like I say, I already explained this in my longer message. There are 3 million people waiting for their cases to be heard, in a system that wasn’t designed for that many. Decreasing the funding will make things worse for those people (when they were already pretty pretty fuckin bad); increasing the funding so the prisons are not overcrowded will make it better.

The problems of racism and horror in the immigration apparatus of this country are very real. The magical-thinking solutions you are proposing will either accomplish nothing or make things worse. People who are similarly confused on the issue, and thinking that they need to oppose the Democrats’ attempts at legislation, because if it isn’t waving a magic wand to make things instantly better then it must represent making things worse on purpose, have created quite a lot of real human misery that is ongoing including up to the present day.

I’m gonna take it from this that you have no answer to what Biden / Harris should do to make things better. There are realistic answers that are better than what they are doing, but nothing you’ve said comes anywhere close to that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Decreasing the funding will make things worse

Increasing funding for rounding those people up and putting them in more cages will make things worse.

This isn't funding for judges, it's funding for the whole system. You can fund judges without funding the expansion of the camps.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yes yes, let's underfund the prisons, instead of anything to directly reduce the amount of people going into them

What could go wrong, what's the worst that could happen

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This is not reducing the number of people going into the prisons, it is funding the guys who round them up.

I would have a very different take if this funded judges instead of US marshals and ICE agents.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

I have chosen to exit this conversation

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