this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
1686 points (98.8% liked)
Technology
60090 readers
2758 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Logic doesn't matter. Literally do anything at all and say "it's because free speech" or "it's to stop cancel culture" and the fan boys will cheer it.
I won't, and I really am against cancel culture (I'm for developing reputation systems to help you automatically ignore those you don't want to read, but to be able to read what they say in case you suddenly want that).
Now, this whole Twitter-Threads dynamic seems like an exemplary "toad vs viper" case.
I didn't think cancel culture was a great tactic until I saw its effect on Alex Jones and Milo Yieanowetpahppolis.
Deplatforming fascists works, and we have observed it. We should do more of it.
lol 'cancel culture' used to be called 'boycotting' / 'speaking with your wallet' used to be called 'having an opinion'
its not new, obviously we should punch nazis, and you can be certain anyone who says the words 'cancel culture' unironically is a tool with less than a 10 year memory span, max.
Cancel Culture is none of those things. Cancel Culture is very specifically taking a platform away from someone who has misused it to do harm in our society.
Should you choose to vote with your wallet and boycott destructive people, though? Yes, absolutely. But deplatforming is observably effective, because we've seen that many of these loud, awful people simply aren't able to rebuild their following without the convenience of major social media platforms and interviews on major networks.
And without that following, they aren't shit. Alex Jones literally went bankrupt.
so first, we generally agree and I don't want to get into an argument with you.
If cancel culture means 'deplatforming' to you, thats great. I agree deplatforming works. But the term 'cancel culture' is deliberately vague, does include boycotting, and is just one of the many terms made up by the right to create a 'boogey man'. I tend to throw these terms back in their faces as laughable ('woke', 'CRT' - all the same badly defined bullshit that just means 'things I don't like'). If your strategy is to embrace, rehab, and legitimize the terms thats fine too.
Gotcha.
Still needs some quality time in a dark alley with a lead pipe
Alex Jones declared bankruptcy in an attempt to avoid paying the families who sued him and won. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64644080
But I overall agree: had he been deplatformed earlier, he could probably not have had so much influence and caused so much damage.
Deplatforming requires a centralized platform from which to deplatform. Ability to sometimes deplatform real Nazis (but usually not) is not worth centralizing crucial systems, end of story.
Not necessarily. It just requires that admins do their job and be good stewards of their users and instances.
Mastodon, for instance, has a tag used exclusively for dogpiling fascists and their instances, so even though it's decentralized, people are vigilant and keep the destructive elements disconnected. (Or, at least, make a great effort of it, which is more than we can say for Twitter.)
I'm not a 140 characters person, so never got on the Twitter/Mastodon train.
However, I think this is a wrong approach. It would be better if they were connected, but easily filtered. Just like NSFW.
Mastodon gives you 500 characters.
Also it has filters. :) I use those too, but I don't have Nazi or Fascist speech filtered because I think it's of the utmost importance that it be reported when it slips through. The upside is that in nine months of being on Mastodon, I can count on one hand the number of extremist toots I've seen. I'm glad filters exist for people who are emotionally upset by it, though.
It's a great platform and I love it.
No, that's what I described in parentheses. Not really existent yet in the Web.
While "cancel culture" (in its narrow meaning in the Web, again) is when you have serious problems talking even to those who are willing to listen to you or undecided. Say, you won't ever read something, because the decision has been made for you by somebody else, and you don't even choose whether to delegate that decision.
The difference is in the architecture of systems used, actually. Because with both things every person involved acts voluntarily, it's just that in my variant that power to decide is spread more evenly.
What I mean is similar to the reputation system in Locutus, only it doesn't work yet.
and/or has the self-awareness of a dishrag
No, we can't say that. I am able to decide for myself who is a fascist and who is not. However, the systems allowing for this work with the assumption that I can't and shouldn't decide for myself.
I'd rather share a bunk with a Nazi (won't happen, I'm part Armenian, part Jewish, but) than accept something like this.
To each their own.
I like my mods doing their job and keeping the fascists out, and I love that when we report that, it's investigated and a reasonable decision is made. That doesn't happen anywhere else but in the fediverse.
Well, we are at least back to the 00s state of things from the degeneracy centralized social media were. Which is good. I just think with modern means and experience one can go further.
We're certainly disentangling ourselves from it, and yeah, I love that too. :)