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this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2024
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YES.
Denizens of an apartheid regime, beneficiaries of a genocide do not get to enjoy tourism abroad. Is that unequivocal enough for you?
Yes, thank you for being forthright about your views, unlike most others here who are tiptoeing around it.
Does that include Chinese tourists? What about Palestinian Israelis?
Punishing unknown people for the actions of their government?
As a US citizen, this is concerning.
My government has done all kinds of shit I have no control over, and don't condone.
Should I be held responsible for any of it?
Yes, I agree, killing innocent people because of the country they are in is terrible.
So terrible that the act of limiting the leisure options of the people who support those actions becomes morally acceptable, because shaming bad behaviour is actually a good thing to do.
I would agree.
But not every resident of a nation supports the actions of their government.
The issue is the death of innocent people. Inconveniencing people such that they become motivated to stop their government from doing that seems acceptable, to me.
Maybe America would stop being such a shit show if other countries actually stoped cowtowing to American demands and forced is to behave properly.
Sure. But that's a different issue. That doesn't require punishing some random citizen; One who has nothing to do with, and no control over what the US, or Israel governments do.
You don't have a right to travel abroad. Am i being punished for not being allowed to fly to Russia, Iran or North Korea? I'm not Muslim nor do i work in ONG, so am i being punished for not being able to travel to Saudi Arabia? What about Cuba? South Africans had serious visa restrictions during Apartheid, which was absolutely justified when they were an openly racist regime.
Denial of hospitality is not the same as a punishment. Speak to US soldiers stationed on Okinawa and you’ll hear similar sentiments from the locals towards them
Saying “I don’t want to offer room and board to a IDF soldier who may have been in Gaza” isn’t a big leap for Japanese society, they’ve apologized for and reckoned with their imperialist past and brutal ethnic cleansing, and generally as a nation actively pushed for peace and cooperation globally. Israel hasn’t done the same, and doesn’t work towards the same goal.
I don’t want to be held responsible for the appalling actions of my government, but as a voter I understand why people in other countries would. I have more control over it than they do, so them influencing me influences my government.
Certainly something to think about isn't it?
That doesn't answer the question. Is it okay to punish people for something they have no control over?
Im not the one who made the claim, but punishing people over things they have no control over are exactly what sanctions are. Its commonplace and often done simply to protect national interests against foreign ones, no matter who's right or wrong.
That is true...
Well, like you said USA has punished and still to this day punishes many peoples of the World far far far FAR more severely than forbidding them to go on vacation for doing far less or even nothing at all. All I'm saying is as an American it would be a nice thought experiment for you to consider why you are or should be an exception.
Well the people who don't agree with their government and the consequences of its decisions should get out and vote instead of letting right wing extremists get their guy in power.
I regret to inform you that according to Lemmy you are personally responsible for the actions of every other American, and are by extension a terrible human being who should never be allowed past the borders of your country.
We are all at least a bit responsible for what our governments do in our names.