this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2024
41 points (100.0% liked)
Europe
1335 readers
527 users here now
News and information from Europe ๐ช๐บ
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in [email protected]. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
(This list may get expanded when necessary.)
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @[email protected], @[email protected], or @[email protected].
founded 3 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Man good we throw out the English people.
On the other hand more news like this might get people away from far right.
Xenophobic arguments are not "about the numbers" or rationality. They are about fear. You can deport as many people as you want, the argument will not go away, as long as there's a single migrant anywhere (and possibly beyond). Also, voters tend to be more right-wing if they don't know any migrants themselves because either there are few/no migrants where they live or they're segregated from them.
Also look at Biden or Obama โ they had more people deported than any US president who came before them. Biden even instituted an "upper limit" on migration recently. Yet, they will still be attacked as "weak on migration".
The only way to win (as a society) is to integrate migrants well. And to make sure people don't need to flee their home countries.
Exactly and working against that fear is the important part, throwing out people that are problematic is a good step, you can simultaneously work on better integration, like Germany did with the overhaul of the citizenship program.
Efficient integration also means reducing the number of immigrants in certain areas that have too many, moving them somewhere else is better as they don't have the ability to build subsocieties
And of course its not about the numbers itself, its about the number of immigrants that shouldn't be here due to crimes, there was almost a decade of the issue being effectively ignored and the voters show that, every other day is a headline about a immigrant doing crimes and being known beforehand to the authoritys, its a actual issue, this issue causes xenophobia.
And im not in favor of a "upper limit" or throwing out people that integrate. Its idiotic to do that and doesn't help at all, its even counterproductive.
And of course, fighting the root of the problem would help a lot but its often not possible or too complex, or in some cases counterproductive "look how much money we spend on those [slurs] while people here have it so bad" -right people fishing for voters (efficiently due to our current economic situation)
Yes because appeasing to voters by copying inhumane far right rethoric and politics has worked out so well in the past for the parties on the democratic spectrum.
Doing something against problems without using their rethoric is a good thing and the problems they use for their Antidemocracy propaganda exist and ignoring problems because the extremists talk about them won't help at all.
Migrants are people first, not "problems". They have rights, they have value, they have skills. As in any population, some will be an issue for society, nad you'll need to deal with that. But that has little to nothing to do with them being migrants.
And the whole "anti-democracy propaganda", as you called it, is mixed up in there too: The far right wants to take away human rights. They'll start with the weakest link, which may be migrants or disabled people or ..., and work their way up.
Exactly, thats what im arguing and uncontrolled immigration is a problem for our society, just as the rise in antisemitism or right wing idiology are.
And there is no human right to getting to stay in EU when you traveled through other countries first. Ukraine is a different story. This isn't meant offensive, its just a fact.
The way to strengthen the weakest link is to reduce the number of people destroying it from inside and giving those that work with us the tools to repair it better, so, throw out people that don't belong here due to crimes (actual crimes not a parking ticket or shit like that) or involvement in organizations that are considered problematic. And the way to reduce the number of people of destroying it from the outside is to do better Educational work especially in structural weak regions and settle more people from that weak link there (unless they are at risk for violence, i wouldn't settle gay people in rural Saxony for example...)