this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2024
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Does anyone have any statistics on how many people are likely to vote for Joe because he keeps moving to the right? Like, how many people are ACTUALLY on the fence between Biden and Trump? Compare that to how many people won't vote or will vote 3rd party BECAUSE Biden keeps moving right.
Seriously, if they'd just come out and say "look, we've run the numbers, moving right gets us 10mil center right votes while losing us 1mil progressive votes, but moving left would only get us 5mil progressive votes while losing us 4mil center right votes" I'd get it and support the math. Gotta do it in good faith though... Assume progressives are not supporting Genocide Joe unless he moves left, not that they can be bullied into changing their minds.
Ok, it might be possible to get you that data, I bet a lot of it is proprietary but I'm sure something is floating out there.
But before that, let's take a pause.
You really think they haven't done this? I mean what's the alternative? The Dems pursue the center/right just for the lulz? The Illuminati is secretly controlling both parties? How insane is that?
Great, so the left wing isn't that important for a Biden victory. If he loses it's just on him then. This whole post is superfluous
Illuminati? No... Corporate donors? Yes... Insane to think they don't
I think the Dems might be working off old numbers. I think there were far fewer progressives in the 90's, and the party hasn't caught up with the fact that the majority of the younger generations are far left of them now. Maybe not on social issues, I think the Dems have made a lot of progress there, but fiscally they're still protecting the interests of the rich at the expense of everyone else.
If they've done the research, then let's see it.
You think Democrats haven't done any sort of polling for thirty years?
"keeps moving right"
Are you mixing things up? Israel support isn't a right wing thing and the Democrats would lose a lot more pro Israel voters than pro Palestine voters because the alternative supports Israel as well.
Otherwise Biden is much more progressive than people thought he would be.
That seems to be the theory... Any sources for it though? Why are they allowed to be single issue voters, but not progressives? Why isn't Joe out there saying stop the genocide or we'll stop all support of Israel, and then sending in the meme team to harass the shit out of pro genocide centrists? Something like "it's the most important election ever, how could you possibly be thinking of voting for Trump, don't you know he LITERALLY supports Nazis? So you think Nazis don't still hate Jews? Don't you know that not voting or voting 3rd party is basically voting for Nazis??"
Seriously, what are the stats? I just don't believe there are that many people who would be like "well I was going to vote for Joe, but then he came out as anti genocide, so I guess I'll just hold my nose and vote for Trump... Sure he's a Nazi supporter, but at least he'll keep the genocide going"
You've got two pro-Israel parties, people who are pro-Palestine know things will be even worse with the Republicans in power, people who are pro-Israel know things will be the same or better (on that specific front) with Republicans in power. The far right you're calling Nazis is on Israel's side when it comes to fighting brown people.
This is a needlessly antagonistic reply. The dude you're replying to in no way said they aren't voting for Biden, they just said they'd appreciate seeing the data on why Biden isn't doing more to court progressives.
I'm voting for Biden and I'd love the same? That doesn't make me a shithead.
I appreciate you.
To be fair, Joe is 1000% safe in my state, so I'll likely vote 3rd party, but if you're in one of the states that actually matters then I fully support voting against Trump (for Biden). I'll also vote Democrat pretty much all the way down the rest of the ballot, which I'd argue is even more important than voting for Joe.
Protest votes should only be cast in a primary. I live in California and it is obviously going for Biden but I will still bit for Biden as I do not want to assume anything for such an important election.
You can't really vote for the Green party in a Democrat primary though. Just as an example.
I do agree the primaries are where these things are really decided and should be taken much more seriously. I'd argue that even more important than that are the elections for Party members. Turning the Party progressive would do more than turning the president progressive, and like 5 people vote in those elections... They are relatively easily winnable for progressives. But sadly most people don't even know how Party politics work.
I'd also point out that it's the Dems who are assuming progressives will vote for Biden instead of actually courting them. An awfully big assumption of them for such an important election wouldn't you say? Don't be so hard on yourself. If the Dems choose to go after the right instead of the left and it backfires... Again... That's on them
Yeah but you didn’t have the common decency to throw a Genocide Joe in there or mention something about our colonialistic ways. Obviously you’re only here to discuss things with reason and allow for the proper give-and-take that requires. Which is outrageous, and I won’t stand for it.
(But srs the metrics involved are sort of impossible to get, particularly this late in the cycle, and there’s a bunch of deep-diving involved to understand how they play out.)
Oh, little buddy's got big feelings today... It's okay big guy, deep breaths
Is it really too much to ask for some evidence that going after the center right is a better move than going after the left? Seems like a no brainer to me... But then again, so do you