this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2024
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submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

edit: this is now closed future comments won't be counted

I keep seeing this instance is overrun with tankies so hey, lets do an informal survey like I've seen on hexbear

respond with YES or NO in the first line of your comment and i'll tally everything in a couple of days, lets say I'll try and collect everything on the sunday the 9th (10+gmt sorry)

not sure thisll work, be nice, have fun

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[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

NO. Communism is interesting, but I'm heavily anti-authoritarian.

[โ€“] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

That's interesting.... Communism is by definition stateless and without significant hierarchy. I don't think other Tankies would disagree with me there.

The ideological difference is in how we achieve communism. I would really suggest reading 'What is to be Done' by Lenin. It's a real short read but was one of the things that sold me on Marxism-Leninism vs. regular "Communism is a neat idea"

Capitalism will sell you the "you're your own boss, go forth an conquer" all while keeping you under their heel. There is no equality or opportunity there; but even worse is that they will worm their way into any system that does not harshly and consistently fight back against them. Ergo the need for a 'communist' (or rather pursuing communism) state.

That then leads into "Well how does the state go away once we've got communism?" That's a whole 'nother can of worms....

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

When does Communism become authoritarian? Like, where in the process?

[โ€“] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I never said that Communism necessarily becomes authoritarian. But, as someone who has a strong dislike for authoritarianism, I'm not interested in Communism which involves it.

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sure, but I mean at what point, right?

To cut to the chase, I'm asking what specifically separates Tankies from Communists. Where is the line drawn? I see a lot of people (myself included) labeled a tankie for recommending people read Marx, or saying that Lenin was a Marxist, regardless of if you agree with him or not.

At what point would a Communist be considered a tankie?

[โ€“] GeneralVincent 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The hard part of politics is drawing hard lines. But I think many would say it's authoritarian at the point when a government is enforcing a specific ideology with force and violence, and limiting personal freedoms.

I personally don't understand how someone can be authoritarian and communist when communism is classless, but to be authoritarian there must essentially be an authority in a separate hierarchical class. But I also likely have more to learn so feel free to correct me

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I would say by that definition, every system is authoritarian to different degrees, and as such we all just pick whatever degree we are okay with. It's vibes based, not metrics based.

Communism is classless, yes, but Communism must be built, as it is the eventual elimination of contradictions. You may wish to read Critique of the Gotha Programme, where Marx makes a good critique of a bad Socialist program and advocates for a different Socialist method of reaching Communism.