arken

joined 1 year ago
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[–] arken 7 points 2 months ago

But the reality I see is that they are very easily manipulated by unregulated media like TikTok

As opposed to adults?

[–] arken 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Art can be a joke, a joke can be art

[–] arken 20 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Well, It also works as a nice allegory for climate catastrophe.

[–] arken 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I have done plenty of research, thank you. Of course even more research never hurts.

[–] arken 3 points 3 months ago

The hides of giant mutated squirrels

[–] arken 11 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Us guitarists call them blues lawyers.

[–] arken 1 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Er, that’s what I am saying however is that you can observe and measure consciousness.

Going with any definition of consciousness relevant to this discussion, say phenomenality and/or awareness, no.

I am not sure why it’s hard to accept that some living things may not be conscious. Viruses propagate “mindlessly”, they’re neither living nor conscious.

That's not really the point - I don't claim to know what entities possess consciousness. The point is that you don't either.

I also don’t understand why you think emergent properties are a hypothesis. Emergent properties of biological processes are fact

Obviously I'm talking about Emergentism as it relates to consciousness, and the idea that consciousness is an emergent property is not a fact, no. And there are perfectly valid reasons - for example, the "explanatory gap" - why someone might find it unsatisfactory.

[–] arken 1 points 3 months ago (5 children)

So, I'm guessing everyone in this thread has a different conception of what "consciousness" actually is and what we're talking about here, which makes it difficult to discuss casually like this. You seem to have a very exclusive definition of consciousness, which only serves to avoid the argument, really. "It’s possible that same organisms exhibit some parts of consciousness as we have noticed till now, but if those organisms do not exhibit all parts of consciousness then they’re not conscious"...you're splitting hairs. If plants could be proven to be aware, have subjective experience, a sense of self, it would be reasonable to change our definition of consciousness to be more inclusive - simply because such a concept of consciousness would be a lot more useful then.

Emergentism is a popular hypothesis, not a fact. Christof Koch lost the bet, remember? The idea that "all organisms which are conscious have to exhibit the same properties" and "you cannot pick and choose" does not logically follow from anything you've said. These are criteria that you set up yourself. Take the idea of qualia as an example, how could we ever observe that an animal or a plant does or does not experience qualia? Nobody solved the problem of other minds.

Consciousness is nothing like a heart; the function of the heart can be observed and measured. How do you know that you possess awareness? You can only experience it. (Actually, that we are aware is the only thing we can know with complete certainty.)

[–] arken 7 points 3 months ago (7 children)

which we don’t observe in those which lack consciousness.

See what you did there? You assume a priori which entities lack consciousness, and then motivate this by claiming they lack traits that can be observed in conscious entities. That is very neatly circular.

[–] arken 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Food service and retail needs to exist, (~~commercial~~ sales) call centers should be banned and their owners shunned from polite society.

[–] arken 5 points 3 months ago

Yes, I think the motivation is often to remove oneself one step from accountability, and also lend credence to the statement - not only I, but another person thinks the same way I do and said this. Third party experience is powerful in persuasion, "everybody's saying it".

[–] arken 12 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Well, it's kind of motivated if we're talking about the Dutch.

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