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this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
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Privacy Guides
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I know what Tor is and how to use it, thanks. I was just wondering what the video had to say about Tor + VPNs that hasn't been said a million times. But I'm not watching video content.
It's kind of weird to comment on a video saying you're not going to watch the video but hey fair enough.
Just for you here is the video transcript
Apologies for the link, it was too large to fit in a post
Hey thanks for the text link but I can't read all that! Is there an audio link to this transcript being read by the stolen AI likeness of Stephen Fry?
I don't have the attention span. Could someone link a TikTok?
This is a lemmy post, with a link to a video. The comment is not on any video.
You're correct. Let me amend my previous post.
It's weird to reply to a Lemmy post about a video, saying you're not going to watch the video.
Is it? Its a pretty common forum comment, saying that they have no interest or capability to watch or listen to a video, and would rather the info was written down so they could read it.
This is a normal request from digg, from reddit, here on lemmy, all over niche hobby forums....
Text based website users usually want text based content. Not really weird.
Our experiences differ
You tend to find text based site users wish they werent?
If people click on a video link, the discussion is typically about the video. Coming into the discussion about the video saying you're refusing to watch the video is not productive in my mind. People who want to engage in the content of the video typically wish to have a productive conversation.
For people who wish to be text only, I respect that, and I understand that, that's why I provided the previous parent a link to the transcript that is also available on the YouTube video.
But, again, not a video? You click on the post link, which opens the post and comments. The title says nothing about video either. I didnt know it was a video until after opening the post.
People who are using a text site, who want to engage with your posts title's implied topic of discussion, are just a bit expecting the text site to have more text to read.
Kinda hard to engage with a video you cant watch, when the post implied a topic of discussion you wanted to read about, no?
I dunno man youre just acting real shocked and surprised that the people at the chinese restaurant expected noodles and rice, and are giving you side eyes for offering them street tacos. Im not saying the tacos arent good tacos.
I see the issue, I'm using the Voyager app, it's very clear it's a video before I open the post.
I guess if different apps don't make that clear, there would be a point of contention. Fair enough thank you for bringing that up
I provided a link to the transcript of the video, you can engage with that textually and join the discussion.
To add on to the video transcript that @[email protected] posted, here is Jonah's post from the Privacy Guides forum that more or less summarizes the video: https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/clarify-tors-weaknesses-with-respect-to-observability/3676/14
It also includes links to useful resources and noteworthy articles referenced in the video, like the case regarding the deanonymized Tor user and the Harvard network admins. You can also toggle dark mode on the forum website, which is useful for those using anti-fingerprinting browsers such as Tor Browser or Mullvad Browser.
thanks, there were some bits there that I was not aware of. This is why the written form is superior to videos, I can quickly scan through the paragraphs searching for the information I want.
But written is less easily monetizable and requires more attention.
Did you watch the video?
No, post an article, then put the video on the videos community
You could read our Tor overview or @[email protected]'s post on our forum (which you should totally join)
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It's a good video, filled with nuance, and good discussion. Definitely worth watching
The onion router was a clue in itself as to how you connect to the Internet, especially when you need to hide. Add more than a normal vpn into the mix, proxies, ssh tunnels, dns tunnels, net cat, and maybe i2p. Once done, you could even fire off an ion cannon in a particular orbit if you fancy.
Just bear in mind that some vpn companies are owned by companies who also own other companies that own large networks, so they don't necessarily need the vpn to log traffic to get your meta data.
While doing this is generally not recommended, EFF does indeed suggest this option in some context: https://ssd.eff.org/module/choosing-vpn-thats-right-you#things-to-consider-what-vpns-don-t-do
I think there's a huge difference between we cannot make a recommendation and you shouldn't do this.
The tor FAQ says we cannot endorse this in all scenarios.. "generally speaking"
https://support.torproject.org/faq/faq-5/
The video makes a reasonable argument that if you can't trust your ISP not to log, adding a VPN that has less incentive to log you makes sense and in worst case is the same as your ISP logging you so you lose nothing by trying it
Also, one should consider using Bridges (obfs4), so that your local ISP may not know you’re on Tor. Tails suggests that too. Using a VPS is not necessary a best option for that, though it might be a good option under some situation.
The video covers that as well, if your bridge becomes discovered later, log traffic can be used to identify your tour usage in the past. And if that's not acceptable in your threat model, then a VPN still makes sense
Agreed. It’s an option worth considering (even EFF said so)—in fact a bridge itself could be run by something like Team Cymru (Augury), removed in TB v11.5.4. On the other hand, a VPN could collaborate with “them” so you’ll have to trust them… adding yet another unknown.
There are many ways to de-anonymoze Tor users indeed. Like Keystroke fingerprinting or Deep Packet Inspection… Usually a local ISP is not a big problem but it depends. The fact remains that even in a country with heavy Internet censorship, currently a nation-state can’t block Tor (via Bridge or Snowflake).
The issue of people in oppressive countries, where internet traffic is logged, is that using Tor won't be blocked, but will mark somebody as a person of interest.
So there's a lot of people on this planet who are connected to the internet and have a legal requirement to have their traffic logged. Those people absolutely should be using a VPN, the VPN cannot possibly be worse than their ISP
I believe this is why privacy groups mostly recommend using tor without vpns More users, more traffic, less being a single target in a field
I never leave my VPN, so that's the easier way anyway.
Canonical link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo22D-dUeCA
Tldr via notegpt io
- 🔥 Hot take of the month: Should you use a VPN before connecting to Tor? Probably yes!
- 🔍 Counter-argument to Mental Outlaw's video on "Stop Using Tor With VPNs"
- 🌐 Tor Project acknowledges the benefits of using a VPN with Tor
- 🤝 Privacy Guides is not affiliated with any VPN providers
- 🔒 Using a VPN before Tor enhances privacy and security
- 🌍 Reasons to hide Tor usage from ISPs and network administrators
- 🚫 Misconceptions about Tor's anonymity and the need for VPN usage
This tldr doesn't explain anything.
It's machine generated off the video transcript, so it's hit and miss but it should give you enough information to determine if you want to watch the video
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=vo22D-dUeCA
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
What are you guys actually using Tor for, anyway?
Not for watching YouTube vids that should've been a fuckin article anyway
thats besides the point
For shits and giggles, mostly