this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2023
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[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Bagging seems like it should be a valid strategy, let yourself go to the back of the pack to get better items, but run the risk of not being able to catch up.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It seems counter-intuitive to make a racing game's optimal strategy to lag behind the rest of the other racers

[–] hansl 12 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Mario Kart is a racing game like Smash Bros is a fighting game; sure it fits, but you can’t really compare it directly to the competition.

[–] Zoomboingding 2 points 11 months ago

Eh serious tournaments disable items in Smash, the same isn't said for Mario Kart.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Knocking opponents off the stage is close enough to lowering their HP to 0.

Being slower than everyone else is the opposite of being faster than everyone else. It does seem like it's cheesing the system that's supposed to balance things out.

Even items in Smash Bros has a skill component in getting to the item first. And "rubber band" mechanics like bonus final smashes (and items in general) can be turned off.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Knocking people off the stage isnt the part that makes smash uncomparable to other fighting games.

Its the fact that its technically a platforming game, and a multiplayer game, which frequently incentivizes running and hiding from opponents, and has a built in random trip mechanic to fuck you over for no reason other than coin flip handicapping you, among a myriad of other examples of how the game can make the weaker player win.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

I think tripping was only in Brawl, no?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

When the Smash meta revolves around playing sub-optimally until the other player trips, let me know.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Bagging isnt sub optimal either, its just not empty brain w+m1 gameplay.

Youre upset the racing game is more dynamic? There are many other racing games with less complex and risky strategies

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I meant sub-optimally in terms of actually racing. Optimal speed would be getting the lowest time in the race. Bagging would be aiming to not get the fastest lap each time. I probably could've chosen a better word, my bad.

I'm not upset about anything. But isn't this post about Nintendo removing/reducing bagging? So maybe some others are upset about that change. But it seems like a good thing to me.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Its also sub optimal speed to lag a bit so a blue shell doesnt blow you up, but since its a mario style cartoonish video game you often find that the optimal play isnt to have the smallest or biggest number at all times.

I would say any change that makes mario cart less like mario cart and more like other racing games is a change that makes a worse game. A racing game that involves more strategy than the rest is more interesting than a racing game thats just more cartoony.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I think lagging behind for OP items is less interesting than a skill-based race.

In a party environment, those OP items are great. Bullet Bills help the new player spice up the friendly environment. But if the pro is lagging behind specifically to get OP items, I think that makes it less fun and less interesting.

[–] hansl 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It’s also possible to turn those off (items and their distribution), making bagging a minor issue at best.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Isn't the competitive default online in Mario Kart to have items on?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It does, but for a real world parallel see bike sprints.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Is it because of wind resistance? The one in front cuts through the wind for everyone else?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes. But it's a duel, so they're just trying to stay behind one person.

You're not allowed to stop, so you try and creep forward really slowly by doing bike stands until the last lap.

I dunno exactly what sandbagging looks like in Mario Cart, but I kind of doubt it looks this silly.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Interesting!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

How would you stop bagging? Detect if someone brakes when moving to a lower place vs getting hit with items? That's a bold change.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

How they implemented it it is you can't get a strong item if you pick-up the item box while being stopped (like as it respawns with no forward speed), by going in reverse or picking up the same one multiple times.