this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2023
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Of course, it doesn't literally have to be the orchid -- although it's thought-provoking to consider that angle. (An orchid suddenly gets super-evolved with the ability to speak and walk -- damn straight it's gonna want to live and would happily lie to do it.) But the point to consider is the source of various claims that are made about the situation.

Critically, Tuvix claims that he speaks for both Neelix and Tuvok -- that both of them are present and both of them are happy being merged.

But that's actually a somewhat bold claim, especially the second point. Given what we know of Tuvok and Neelix, it seems hard to imagine either of them voluntarily signing up for this -- certainly given their mild personal animosity, but also because we really have no evidence to suggest that either of them feel "incomplete". Like, Tuvok really doesn't seem that interested in becoming more in touch with his emotions; Neelix is a little more debatable, but even he doesn't really seem like he is longing to be more logical or serve in Starfleet.

So Tuvix is making at least one implausible claim; that claim is important because, if it were accurate, then yes, Janeway's decision goes against the wishes of Tuvok, Neelix, and Tuvix, which would be bad.

For the sake of argument, imagine then that Tuvix is actually neither Tuvok nor Neelix, but is the orchid, with access to Tuvok and Neelix's memories, knowledge, and personality -- and maybe even holding mental versions of their persons as silent captives. The orchid would have incentive to lie, and would have all the means at its disposal to engage in a convincing deception.

In that scenario (and certainly if Janeway discovered this to be true), it seems pretty straightforward that deintegrating Tuvix is the right thing to do: Tuvok and Neelix are being held captive with no ability to advocate for themselves. The orchid, while surely benefiting from the situation, does not have the right to usurp the autonomy of Tuvok and Neelix.

It is, of course, unknowable whether the orchid was in fact holding Neelix and Tuvok hostage. But even if we set aside the orchid, and take the more conventional interpretation that Tuvix is a composite individual arising from the transporter combination of Tuvok and Neelix, I think the above argument still holds.

Tuvix is not Tuvok nor Neelix -- that much is clear externally as well as by his own account. Tuvix (who is not Tuvok nor Neelix) claims to speak for both Tuvok and Neelix and makes an assertion that would seem out of character for both individuals. Tuvix makes claims that blatantly serve his self-interest. Tuvix advocates action that benefits him, and which has an unknowable impact on Tuvok and Neelix but either way denies them their autonomous existence.

Whether "Tuvix" is a malicious masquerading hyper-evolved orchid, or a genuine composite individual speaking from his unique perspective, it doesn't really matter. There is no usable evidence of consent from either Tuvok or Neelix, and there are ample reasons to believe that they would not consent to this situation. Janeway has no way of knowing that Tuvok and Neelix aren't both screaming inside of Tuvix, demanding to be freed -- a scenario that does seem likelier true than not.

Tuvix's death is a tragedy, as was his birth.

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[–] Smokeless7048 2 points 1 year ago

That's a good point of view, one I hadn't considered before.

A situation where Tuvok and Neelix are each in a tube, but a being that represents their combined consciousness, states they are happy with this situation, and dont want to be freed. Can you trust the combined consciousness?

Hmm, didnt quite come out in words as it was in my head.

[–] T156 2 points 1 year ago

At the same time, Tuvix is also the orchid. The orchid is not some externally third-party entity that is malevolently taking control of the situation. Logically, if the orchid is capable of sapient thought, its wishes should also be taken into account.

In disregarding them, it would be similar to Captain Janeway disregarding the wishes of Tuvix, and ordering his disassembly.

In that scenario (and certainly if Janeway discovered this to be true), it seems pretty straightforward that deintegrating Tuvix is the right thing to do: Tuvok and Neelix are being held captive with no ability to advocate for themselves. The orchid, while surely benefiting from the situation, does not have the right to usurp the autonomy of Tuvok and Neelix.

At the same time, the rights and wishes of the new emergent entity must also be taken into the account.

If it were not a transport accident, but something more like a forced Trill joining, it would be seen as highly unethical for Captain Sisko to separate Jadzia or Curson Dax from Ezri because he needed Dax back as their own entity. (It's also unethical for them to be forcibly joined in the first place, but that's neither here nor there).

It simply will not do for you to disregard the wishes of the emergent entity, simply because their values don't align with yours.

Tuvix is not Tuvok nor Neelix – that much is clear externally as well as by his own account. Tuvix (who is not Tuvok nor Neelix) claims to speak for both Tuvok and Neelix and makes an assertion that would seem out of character for both individuals. Tuvix makes claims that blatantly serve his self-interest. Tuvix advocates action that benefits him, and which has an unknowable impact on Tuvok and Neelix but either way denies them their autonomous existence.

Considering the circumstances around those claims, it is not much of a surprise that they would serve his own self-interests. Most would make similar claims, if threatened with death as the alternative. We already know that Tuvix (or the orchid) would not be preserved if reverted back to Tuvok and Neelix.

Whether “Tuvix” is a malicious masquerading hyper-evolved orchid, or a genuine composite individual speaking from his unique perspective, it doesn’t really matter. There is no usable evidence of consent from either Tuvok or Neelix, and there are ample reasons to believe that they would not consent to this situation. Janeway has no way of knowing that Tuvok and Neelix aren’t both screaming inside of Tuvix, demanding to be freed – a scenario that does seem likelier true than not.

It's both. Captain Janeway would have had no idea whether they were content with their new position, or whether they wanted out, at least not without bringing a telepath into the mix, and most of the Voyager's other telepaths tended to be on the homicidal side.