this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2023
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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

They want to burn a Qur’an right outside Stockholm’s main Mosque. How is that not incitement to violence or racial hatred?

If I burned a copy of the Torah outside a Synagogue, would that just be an expression of ‘free speech’? Or would I not be giving a pretty unambiguous signal of both what I think of the people inside and the way that we should treat them?

This absolutely should not have been allowed to go ahead. It is incitement to violence and racial hatred.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

How is it an incitement of violence and how is burning a religious text book racial hatred? It's much more akin to how burning a US flag isn't an incitement for violence against its citizen but rather an expression against the country itself or its ideals, or merely to express the freedom itself.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In addition to all the good stuff the other guys says: BOOK BURNING HAS CONTEXT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings?wprov=sfla1

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's a single book, presumably purchased and owned by the person burning it. This is far out of context of cultural genocide.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Why do you think this person does this? Just because he/she can or maaaaayyyyybeeeee TO SEND A MESSAGE? A message that gets its meaning from history.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I think we're all capable of recognising the important differences between burning a flag representing a particular state, or some aspect of its government or policies, and burning a Torah in front of a Synagogue, as happened frequently in Nazi Germany, or in this case burning a Qur'an in front of a Mosque.

It's a hateful act designed to encourage hatred with the intention of turning that hatred into acts.

The person burning the Torah in front of a Synagogue is not saying "I disagree with the Torah's rulings on x", they're saying "those who follow this religion are disgusting and we should do something about it."

The person who burns a LGBT pride flag is not saying "I think this movement oversteps the legitimate reach of the state", they're saying "those who are part of this group are disgusting and we should do something about it."

Same with the Qur'an.

It needlessly inflames tensions, encourages hatred and horrible acts towards Muslims, and both makes Muslims feel unsafe and directly contributes to making them unsafe. It's not the sort of thing a decent, civilized society should tolerate.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A flag represents the state, religious text book represents the teachings of a religion, a pride flag represents the minorities.

Going out of your way to burn the book of a religious group in front of its gathering sites is obnoxious and counterproductive at best, and surely one could hold actual hatred along otherwise protected expression, but the religion itself and its teachings are not above criticism. As crude as burning a book may be, you're inserting a lot of meaning in to it that just isn't actually there.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

This should end well

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Good stuff. Don’t let the crazies mess with you. We should be free to express ourselves as any other country

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I don't understand your comment. We are all in agreement that book burning of any form is crazy right? Do you mean to say that freedom of religion should be a right in Sweden as it should be for any country?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I meant that Muslim people would be angry at this but the thing is we have freedom to express so just like people can make fun of Christianity, we should be able to criticize and be able to burn Quran as well bible as well. Let’s not enable these people to get angry and make death threat (see Charlie hebdo)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Does that right extend to burning a copy of the Torah outside of a Synagogue?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Even when it both makes Jewish people unsafe and encourages an atmosphere of racism, which only ever results in one thing?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

If they're is no law against "making people unsafe, by provoking a 3rd party" then yes. If they're is a law against that, actions like these would be stopped. There doesn't seem to be one though. Any Swede here?

In Germany something vaguely like this would probably count as "Volksverhetzung", but IANL so I'm not sure that would even remotely fit.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Thank you for your explanation. I do however have a very different opinion. This isn't an expression of free speech but a delibirate provocation to incite violence. How this so called protest isn't a criminal offense is beyond me.

[–] torres 0 points 1 year ago

I feel like burning something considered sacred to a group, with the specific intent of hurting them shouldn't really be allowed. It's very disrespectful. And I say that as a non religious person

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago
[–] Rob 2 points 1 year ago

I’m always a bit torn in situations like these. Sure, Sweden makes the right choice by guaranteeing free speech even when it’s inconvenient.

But the people actually burning the book are complete asshats and specifically doing it to be complete asshats towards others. They know it’s going to result in a lot of anger, and do it precisely for that reason.

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