"Othering and randomness"
Originally posted by u/VLSIHeaven on 2021-10-24 09:09:46 (qeepzp).
this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2023
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weird (adj.)
c. 1400,
• "having power to control fate", from wierd (n.), from Old English wyrd "fate, chance, fortune; destiny; the Fates," literally "that which comes,"
• from Proto-Germanic wurthiz (cognates: Old Saxon wurd, Old High German wurt "fate," Old Norse urðr "fate, one of the three Norns"),
• from PIE wert- "to turn, to wind," (cognates: German werden, Old English weorðan "to become"),
• from root wer- (3) "to turn, bend" (see versus).
• For sense development from "turning" to "becoming," compare phrase turn into "become."
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Randomness is your own self-unconsciousness. Yes, relative randomness is possible alongside self-unconsciousness.
In a dream, you don't always know what content you're going to produce for yourself right? Especially when you're unconscious of the fact that you're dreaming. Your unconscious expectations and tendencies (including with probabilities) are generating appearances in your dream.
Originally commented by u/AesirAnatman on 2021-11-05 07:57:00 (hjby7oj)
But deep down I'm pulling all the strings, right? Which means that the randomness is illusory, a result of (self-imposed) amnesia/ignorance.
Originally commented by u/VLSIHeaven on 2021-11-06 14:05:47 (hji785s)
But deep down I'm pulling all the strings, right?
Yes, but not in the way you are imagining. It sounds like you're almost imagining you're fundamental self a material/objective/determinate.
Your power means you have the power to be extremely precise/orderly but also to generate randomness/chaos for yourself within whatever constraints you please. Randomness v. predictability is just another subjective perceptual phenomena, and you have the capacity to generate any variation of perception or any place in between.
Which means that the randomness is illusory, a result of (self-imposed) amnesia/ignorance.
As is any sense of order and predictability.
Originally commented by u/AesirAnatman on 2021-11-06 21:02:36 (hjj746t)
Yes, but not in the way you are imagining. It sounds like you're almost imagining you're fundamental self a material/objective/determinate.
Yeah, I was somewhat thinking like this when I posted the question. I was wondering whether apparent randomness is ever "really random", which seems like a misguided question upon reflection. Phenomena are never "really" anything in particular.
BTW, it's good to see you around. I'm relatively new here but I've benefited from reading your old posts while learning about SI.
Originally commented by u/VLSIHeaven on 2021-11-07 02:33:55 (hjk7flg)
Thanks! I should probably go back and review what I wrote because there are probably things I've changed my perspective on.
> Phenomena are never "really" anything in particular.
Exactly
Originally commented by u/AesirAnatman on 2021-11-08 23:59:13 (hjsr9sm)
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Originally commented by u/[deleted] on 2021-10-26 08:30:34 (hi1bqmx)
This is very helpful. The concept of "randomness" should break down at some level of analysis. "Random" basically means unpredictable. But you never reach 100% certainty that something is unpredictable.
Originally commented by u/VLSIHeaven on 2021-10-26 08:48:44 (hi1eazx)
Is true randomness possible?
Probably. A university in Australia is measuring the rise and fall of virtual particles in a vacuum and outputting a stream of numbers based on it. Conventionally speaking, that's pretty sound.
Whether or not either order or chaos is primordial has been a question since antiquity. Depends how you look at it. ☯️
On another level, taken personally you're essentially asking whether or not you can surprise yourself. Not sure if you'll get an acceptable response about that from an 'other.' If you did, why would you believe them?
Originally commented by u/Scew on 2022-08-04 16:37:16 (iivvkk9)
Randomness is ignore-ance in perception. Ie, that which is not consciously awareof, but only an appearance not an actuality. That said, all potential states of experience exist simultaneously and all operational iterative transformations between states also exist, so there isn't a hard determinism either. The choice of operational transformation sequences is just unconscious.
Originally commented by u/CreateCoincidence on 2021-12-07 16:56:12 (hnk9awf)
It can be unconscious. There are the same number of experiences where it is conscious as there are where it isn't.
Originally commented by u/Scew on 2021-12-15 01:39:06 (hoijq1t)
I kinda see the way things are as random order. The order is real, randomly selected, applied or integrated based on the arbitrary whims of my preference for the way things are.
Originally commented by u/[deleted] on 2021-12-09 00:35:44 (hnprkhn)
Randomness is a trait of this reality which you have committed to.
One perspective is that your current experience of being a human comes with beliefs of limitation, a desire to relieve yourself of responsibilities, and enjoyment through the unexpected. You don't want to control how every blade of grass moves, or which path a person who lives in another city decides to take tomorrow. This is not the kind of responsibility or reality you intend for yourself. Your human experience thrives on unexpected events that add novelty and value to the experience.
To use a metaphor, if you designed your own computer game you'd want to include some degree of randomness otherwise the gameplay would be expected and boring. You might even want the world to generate randomly to add to the experience of adventure and discovery. You might also want your avatar to be capable of developing new abilities, perhaps as they increase their awareness over time.
If so, it also feels like a limitation of mind (inability to predict/know the outcome of an event).
Approaching it with the above perspective makes this your original/othered intent.
Originally commented by u/syncretik on 2021-10-24 16:55:39 (hhty92c)
If you designed your own computer game you'd want to include some degree of randomness otherwise the gameplay would be expected and boring. You might even want the world to generate randomly to add to the experience of adventure and discovery.
Right, this is an example of othering. My question could perhaps be rephrased as this: how far can othering be taken?
Originally commented by u/VLSIHeaven on 2021-10-26 08:44:20 (hi1dox2)
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Originally commented by u/[deleted] on 2021-10-26 08:55:33 (hi1f96y)
It's also noteworthy to point out that this duality you stated is also a concept that you have othered. Ultimately the mind (in the context it's used on this sub) is not bound by any limitations or rules.
/u/VLSIHeaven I hope this answers your question. If not please let me know.
Originally commented by u/syncretik on 2021-10-26 17:58:49 (hi34e6h)
Randomness, uniqueness, absolute zero...
Truly achieving any of these in theory is possible, but actually not so much.