this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
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TLDR Wagner returning to positions after deal is met with the Kremlin. Wagner will sign a contract with the Defense Ministry. All charges against Prigozhin will be dropped.

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[–] Badgernomics 54 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die."

I am very sceptical of this. Lukashenko brokered a deal? He's a Putin puppet, why would Prigozhin cut a deal with him? What would that deal look like? Does Prigozhin become head of the MoD or Putins designated successor? He's right there outside Moscow, he has the leverage, why would he blink?

Putin called him a traitor, an enemy of the state, why would Putin back down from that point, he already looks weak, why look weaker via a U-turn? Prigozhin must know he's a dead man if he backs down, he knows the play book, why would he trust in the deal?

Was the whole thing a psy-op to give Putin an out? Was the voice recording that is the ultimate source of all this a Russian State propaganda play? Is it a play by Wagner to buy time to consolidate his forces before he moves on Moscow? But then, he has to be the one to move fast and hard...

Whatever is going on, we don't know. Next 5-24hrs will be key.

[–] pinwurm 48 points 2 years ago (3 children)

He’s a Putin puppet

A common misconception.

Lukashenko has been around longer the Yeltsin. Putin, Medvedev, and Putin 2: Electric Boogaloo. I would bet money that he'll be around after Putin's demise as well - whenever that will be.

As much of an idiot lackey as he seems - he's always been to squeeze what he wants out of Russia while squeezing from the West as well. Visa relationships, for example - are a good metric for international diplomacy. Americans can travel visa-free through Minsk Airport for up to 30 days. Think about that. And also - he's managed to survive his own coup/revolution attempts. And yes, with Russia's support - but he's still done it.

The war put him in a precarious balancing act where has simultaneously play nice with Moscow without getting Belarusian troops actually involved in battle. It keeps him in power.

I'm not saying Luka is smart or cunning. But he's maintained power for 30+ years. He's experienced in it.

why would Prigozhin cut a deal with him?

Nobody knows.

But I'm speculating Belarus offered him something very special. Maybe Moscow will oust Shoigu, and Belarusian 'diplomacy' will be seen as legitimate.

A distracted Moscow would be a premium opportunity for Belarusian activists and freedom fighters to organize another revolution. Last night, Lukashenko flew his family to Turkey. So... we can speculate as to how confident Luka was feeling.

Was the whole thing a psy-op to give Putin an out?

The "out" would've been for Putin to recall troops to Moscow to 'deal with the Wagner problem'. It would've given him an out and he would've seemed competent to do so.

Afterwards, he can say "its clear need to fix problems in the Russian military before we can help our lost brothers in Ukraine" and call an indefinite ceasefire. Then funnel money into military development indefinitely, like a fascist does.

But that's not what's happening... Wagner might just go back to fighting in Ukraine later today.

The news is happening at lightning speed. Nobody knows what's going on. Absolutely wild times.

[–] Badgernomics 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Fair points all in.

The long and the short will hang on wether Prigozhin has loyalists installed at the head of FSB, Ministery of Interior, and Ministery of Defence...

If not, It'll rank amongst the biggest blunders in Russian political history, and Prigozhin will be dead in short order.

If yes, Prigozhin basically is in control of the Russian Federation in all but name.

[–] pinwurm 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If not, It’ll rank amongst the biggest blunders in Russian political history, and Prigozhin will be dead in short order.

My money's on 'blunder'. However, I don't see Prigozhin being killed anytime soon. The criminal case against him was closed and he's moving to Belarus. He's incredibly popular - especially amongst Russian Ultranationalists, they'd risk martyring him.

Then again, moving to Belarus - he would be freer to criticize Russian Federation from a comfortable distance... and would be a thorn. TBD, I guess.

[–] Badgernomics 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

At what point, if ever, in Russian politics has self-canibalisation been a problem for them?

Putin has thrown down against Prigozhin, brought Alltwen arms of State to bare... and allowed him to walk away...?

If you think he's blundered I would caution about underestimating him, a brutal, ruthless bastard... for sure, but not a fool....

If he was a fool he wouldn't have got to the position he has at Wagner in the first place...!

[–] pinwurm 4 points 2 years ago

My gut feeling is that this is a burn after reading moment.

If there’s anything following politics has taught me, is that fools can be highly effective with a little bit of luck.

And I agree with you. Fool or not, I wouldn’t underestimate the guy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago

We definitely live in interesting times. I really can't even guess at what might actually be going on or about to happen; will this just fizzle out, or will things go sideways (even more) in Russia?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The out is just to blame all of the failures on Wagner. The Russian military is strong! It was Wagner that wasted all our equipment. They are the reason we lost.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The trouble is a significant number of people outside Moscow either stood down and let Wagner through or actively joined their convoy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Makes me think this was a test to see who'd defect.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago

I've wondered that, but I think really that's more of an opportunity than a plan. Even then, it's a sketchy one, given how much support Wagner apparently has.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This could have been an email.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Just that this is a wild turnaround to happen in 24 hours. I think everyone was expecting this to be much larger.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think he thought was going to get support from Russia's military and he didn't, so this is the best he can get without getting him getting MIA'ed.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago

Straight to the KIA. He's not getting out of this.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I do not think that he is that naive that he thinks that he has chances now to stay alive after all this.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Some analysts are waiting to see a withdrawal before they actually believe one is happening.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

What do your analysts say now?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 years ago (3 children)

What could the deal possibly entail that would make them immediately turn back? So curious

[–] Kaiser 2 points 2 years ago

"An agreement was reached on the return of PMC Wagner to their locations. Part of those who will wish to do so, will sign contracts with the Ministry of Defense — this concerns those who did not take part in the march, indeed, there were such formations which, from the very beginning, changed their minds and returned. They even requested to be escorted by the traffic police and other assistance in order to return to their permanent locations,"

[–] xXxBigJeffreyxXx 0 points 2 years ago
[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 years ago

Careful with that window, Eugene

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I wonder what was said in the meeting because wager was steam rolling. It smells like it was preplanned with the Russian state

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

People say this, but how does any of this benefit Russia?

[–] ToastyWaffle 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They passed a law to allow Conscripts to fight now. That's my only guess is if they can use this as an excuse to do a full mobilization and finish the Ukrainian situation.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago

Sure let's give people who are unwilling to fight in Putin's war a weapon, train them how to use it, and hope for the best... just after everyone saw a Wagner mutiny march towards Moscow with little to no resistance.

What could possibly go wrong?

History nerds feeling like this is analogous to the glory days of the great Red Army might want to do a little reading about what happened in Russia in 1917.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The hobgoblin priggy is a walking corpse. You think Saruman would tolerate one of his "white hands" rebelling? Wagner is toast, and it's going to be enjoyable watching these orcs butcher their own.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Well putin still has rockets he can rain down on them if he chose to and unlike ukraine they dont have western rockets to defent them...i think prigozhin better learn to fly soon...and mercs are generally a bad idea unless you run them...

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 years ago

and mercs are generally a bad idea unless you run them…

Well the entire affair is basically a Prigozin response to Russia wanting to run them closer so they do know that. Interestingly enough his gamble was apparently to check if Russian government is really as weak as western and UA media says and the support in army is crumbling. It turned out that propaganda is wishful thinking and nobody outside Wagner Group supported the endeavour and afaik even a lot of Wagner personnel said they didn't sign up for that.

But, neither side could just admit they were in wrong so that's why Lukashenko proposal came in and now they can just talk and resolve it one way or another.

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