this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2023
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113
France bans iPhone 12 after finding radiation levels are too high (www.techspot.com)
submitted 1 year ago by root to c/technology
28 comments fedilink hide all child comments
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[–] ericisshort 86 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

This title is so misleading. France hasn’t banned the device, and the radiation levels could likely be fixed with a software update. French officials have stated that they may prohibit sale and issue a recall IF Apple doesn’t respond to their request. The article says as much:

France's junior minister for the digital economy, Jean-Noël Barrot, told newspaper Le Parisien that a software update would be able to address the radiation issues linked to the iPhone 12. Apple has two weeks to respond to France's request, if it fails to do so, Barrot stated that he is prepared to issue a recall of the device, which went on sale in 2020.

Also, why the hell did it take French agencies 4 years to test this device? Even if Apple says they won’t update the phones and is forced to stop selling them, taking a 4 year old phone off the market won’t really hurt them in any way.

[–] Earthwormjim91 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Apple hasn’t sold them in a few years anyway. It would only affect third party sellers.

[–] ericisshort 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think they still sell refurbed 12s.

[–] dpkonofa 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Probably not after today.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Made my day, literally lol’d. Thanks.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

they do, my sister just bought one

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

It would also affect already sold units. They are giving apple 2 weeks to come up with a software fix to remediate already sold units and if apple fails to comply, they will force apple to recall all the iPhone 12s still in use.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Maybe something changed more recently to warrant a test?

The story feels like pop-science websites running with a story that's otherwise pretty boring regulatory proceedings.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The article says:

The French agency that regulates radio frequencies, the ANFR, has notified Apple of its decision to ban iPhone 12 sales after tests showed the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR) was above the allowed limit.

Followed by this quote:

The ANFR said it would verify that the iPhone 12 models were no longer being offered for sale in France starting today.

That sounds a lot like "banned" to me. Considering those two quotes, I don't think the article title is misleading. It sounds like they are banning sales effective immediately, and will force apple to conduct a recall if they can't retroactively fix the already sold units.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

The FCC has a decent article on what the SAR (specific absorption rate) actually means.

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/specific-absorption-rate-sar-cell-phones-what-it-means-you

Tldr: France is wrong here, and no one should confuse SAR with ""radiation."

[–] Kumabear 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Honestly not to defend apple here... but does the timing of this announcement seem a bit too convenient.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Would be weird if they waited after testing to find a good opportunity to make the announcement.

It's also not necessarily a win/loss since Apple could spin it like "we fixed it in the new one, get it"

[–] ohwhatfollyisman 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

as someone who's had the 12 mini for a couple of years now, what does this mean for me?

have i been irreparably harmed? is there a pressing need for me to get rid of that device?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

it means you have the 5G waves coming out of your ears

[–] kaitco 1 points 1 year ago

I thought that was from the Covid-19 vaccine!?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Your head might have gotten a little bit warmer compared to someone using a different phone while calling, especially if you live in an area with poor coverage.

[–] ohwhatfollyisman 2 points 1 year ago

i am known for my short temper. maybe that's where i got the hot head?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

If you or a loved one owned an iPhone 12 and have developed mesothelioma, you may be due compensation. Our lawyers are standing by to evaluate your claim so call today!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Probably not, but you could look into any recalls / software updates.

I haven't read the specifics, but I think if you store it in a bag or something and don't leave it in contact with your body too long, you should be fine. If it was more serious, there would be more of an announcement

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Wait, they measure the wattage per kilogram of the device? Why does the weight of the device matter? Could they just increase the weight of the phone to pass the test?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

I believe it is per kg of body mass not the weight of the phone.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's not per kilogram of the device. It's a measure of absorption per kilogram of body mass of the person using the device.

A good way to think about it is: throw a small piece of meat into the microwave and let it absorb some microwaves. It gets warm. Now imagine a much larger piece of meat. It can absorb a lot more microwaves before it starts getting warm. The smaller the 'body mass', the less radiation it can absorb and dissipate before becoming damaged. So when it comes to mobile device radiation levels, they focus on the watts of radiation absorbed per kilogram of body mass.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

and different parts of the body resonate at different frequencies...~~part of the reason ~2.4 GHz was picked for the common household microwave is water molecules resonate there~~ (and other harmonically related frequencies too... it's why a lot of the unlicensed ISM stuff is allocated there: crappy atmospheric propagation). also the necessary magnetron and waveguide for that freq is conveniently sized for a kitchen appliance and not too complicated.

EDIT: see proper principle of operation in reply below

[–] droidpenguin 2 points 1 year ago

Not great but not terrible.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I thought the iPhone 12 hasn't been sold since 2021, so why does it even matter if the iPhone 12 is not compliant with a more modern standard?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's still relevant to ask the company to recall it / not produce more / get third party distributors to stop selling it

with a more modern standard

I don't think that's what's happening here?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

From the article:

The agency noted that tests measuring radiation absorption rates at a distance of 5cms (1.98 inches) showed that the iPhone 12 was in compliance with the limit of 2.0 watts per kilogram.

But it also says that:

The ANFR said accredited labs had measured absorption of electromagnetic energy by the body at 5.74 watts per kilogram during tests simulating when the phone was being held in the hand or kept in a pocket, writes France 24. That's higher than the European standard absorption rate of 4.0 watts per kilogram.

That sounds like different test methodology was used for the test it is currently failing? There is a difference between "from 5 cm" vs "held in hand" or "kept in a pocket".

It makes it sound like the iPhone 12 was in compliance earlier, but is not in compliance now with different test methodology.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The SAR limit recommended by The Council of the European Union is 2.0W/kg averaged over 10 grams of tissue for the body (4.0 W/kg averaged over 10 grams of tissue for the extremities - hands, wrists, ankles and feet).

Source: https://download.tomtom.com/open/manuals/new_GO/html/en-gb/SpecificAbsorptionRate(SAR)compliance-EU.htm

Last modified: 3/3/2016 3:06:39 PM

So, looks like its just two different requirements that have been around since at least 2016 when tomtom posted that. Its low enough to not exceed the body limit when being held away from the body, but not the limit for extremities when being held or body when in pocket.