The post description sounds like it means "Warframe", but I'd be really interested to see what the story would be like without Ballas, the single big bad orokin who personally caused so many of the events of the plot. I'm more interested in the aftermath of the orokin system than the villainy of one man.
this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2023
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Warframe
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The Operator
This person is thinking 5th dementionaly
lol
Yk, I'm not even upset, I did this to myself
Limbo. The burden of having to figure it out if I'm doing damage to enemies, like how Nekroses shadows can look like real enemies.
Chroma. His 2 and 3 are unhealthy design that completely overshadow his more flavorful 1. His 4 is a summon pinata that doesn't make Chroma himself feel more like a dragon compared to, say, Shyvana R from League of Legends.
I'd like to see him actually fly like Titania 4 and have every ability feel like part of his fantasy (like Sevagoth). Add to that the burden of working in his elemental subtheme (hence "Chroma"), and a total rework akin to deleting the OG Chroma sounds better and better.
Yeah, as a dragon frame Chroma doesn't deliver on being a dragon in the slightest (western or eastern dragon). His 1 is more of a spit than actual breathing fire/ice/etc. and the rest of his abilities have nothing to do with being a dragon. Zephyr is more of a dragon than Chroma is.
Dargyn pilots so there wouldn't be any rivens to crack with "kill X dargyn mofos".
I really think Limbo was a bad idea in general. He's a very clunky frame that causes frustration for the rest of the squad, with the amount depending on how much the Limbo player is willing to actively try to mitigate it. When his abilities are able to consistently function they have also historically completely trivialised game modes. There's not even a good way to fix these issues without turning him into a different frame entirely.
A lot of good options here but I think I'd vote for Voruna. She's useless, and not even her helminth ability is worth anything.
her helminth is meta on khora
Really? Why? It's so terrible compared to pretty much anything else. If you want health and energy just use Dispensary.
What don't you like about her? Raksh is a pretty good ability, and she works well with equilibrium. She's not meta but I think there's a lot of frames worse than her.
She's squishy, her damage is bad, and her abilities are finicky. She's not good at anything. She's not terrible at anything, I'll give her that, but in order for that to be acceptable she needs to be good at at least one thing and she isn't.
She can't do stealth so her first ability is just a gimick.
Her second ability would be amazing on something like a chromatic blade Excalibur build, but sadly it isn't her helminth ability. On voruna it's once again a gimick as the status effects themselves don't do much and so function merely to make her other abilities not suck.
Her third ability is just worse Dispensary.
Her fourth ability is the only one that's somewhat good, but even in that case it's worse than most other warframes abilities as it requires using her second ability first (on multiple enemies), and requires that it be able to deal enough damage on every attack to kill its target which means you need to be careful about the order you use it against enemies. If everything lines up perfectly it can do almost as much damage as most well moded guns. Assuming you can get it off before you're killed anyway.
She's just an all around underwhelming frame that accels at nothing. People keep ragging on Chroma for thematic reasons, which fair enough, but at least he's super tanky and provides some very nice group buffs (he was better before the rework when you could use vex armor to quickly buff weapon damage to ridiculous levels). Chroma could certainly be better, but I'd still rather bring him than Voruna any day. At least I'd live long enough to get some kills.
Her 2 and 4 only momentarily exit you from her 1's stealth, and it's such a short period that enemies often can't even detect you.
She absolutely can do stealth, she just has to focus on quick-kill builds with either her pouncing abilities (2 & 4) or melee heavy attacks. The latter requires she spam her 1 after every attack, but it works and you can easily have builds that destroy entire groups.
Her 2 does very decent damage when it procs the right statuses, and more than that it works as a primer for her. The RNGness of it does make it inconsistent, but it's still an okay ability and functions well when you use it as a primer.
Her 3rd can feed her quicker than dispensary ever could. It's problematic in that it doesn't work with her 4, but it's still an okay ability.
Her 4 doesn't really need the stacking damage. It's nice to have, but you can just as easily prime and then nuke an Eximus with it. You shouldn't have to use her 2 multiple times for a group, her 2 spreads by itself when the enemy dies. So, you kill the primed enemy and then everyone is primed and everyone starts dying.
I would say Voruna is superior to Chroma, at least in my experience on the Steel Path. Voruna can eat into enemies with her 2 and 4, and you should never underestimate invisibility, even half-hearted invisibility like Voruna's. She's not crazy powerful and could use a few tweaks to make her kit function together better overall, but she's by no means as abysmal as you say.
Hmm, I'll try rebuilding her as a stealth focused build then and see if she's better that way, but I'm not super optimistic. How do you deal with energy? Her 3rd only gives energy on headshot kills, but her two viable paths for securing kills are melee and her 4th ability. Do you need to just use a gun (bow?) to get headshot kills when her energy starts to run low and spam her 1st ability until you get your energy reserve back up so you can go back to using her 2nd and 4th? She still sounds way too finicky just to arrive at a state where she's able to keep up with what other frames can do effortlessly.
If you go the heavy melee route, you can slot in Equilibrium and Synth Fiber on your pet to always pick up health so you can always get that energy, and then you'll never have energy issues.
Using the pounces for kills actually doesn't trigger her 3 at all (which is problematic and I wish it was otherwise) so you have to do the normal energy economy stuff like Arcane Energize, yellow archon shards, Streamline, Zenurik, etc.. The pounce build basically completely ignores her 3 and subsumes over it. You could even use Citrine's subsume which would let her get energy on kills again, but I prefer Roar because I have Arcane Energize.
Basically, don't worry about headshots and either ignore the ability or use Equilibrium to make the ability into something Voruna wants.
She's not that bad though. She got some changes that made a 'pounce' build worthwhile, if a bit slow (using her 1, 2, and 4). It could use a smidgen of a boost to really excel but it's a decent option overall. You slap roar over her 3rd and prime with her 2, and you can easily hit 4 million damage from a single strike of her 4 (so I recommend range so you hit more enemies instead).
She's not like Frost who needs all of his augments integrated or Chroma who's a dragon without the dragon part, both frames 'taking up the theme' and being DE's excuse to not have a better frame/kit designed for a dragon/ice themed frame.
Yareli, purely on an artistic perspective. This anime stuff can go to hell for all I care x)
but she has the best fabric physics in the game, almost everything else is so rubbery :(
Limbo
I second this
I respect your opinion, however as someone who likes Valk, and often mains her, I wouldn't want her removed.
I think most Warframes have a place in the game honestly. Maybe my pick would be Excalibur since we have Styanax now but I'm sure there's some Excalibur lovers around. Also, on the topic of Excalibur, would that mean I ALSO would remove Excalibur Umbra and Excalibur Prime, or just excal prime? Because If not then we also have umbra as a backup.
It makes me angry for Valkyr that they nerfed Hysteria, then turned around later and buffed Revenant's Mesmer Skin; and her claws can't slash while Garuda gets better Valkitty Klaws due to being the only exalted melee in the game that gets acolyte mods.
Excal still has a place in being the funny number melee frame. Nobody else gets to stack as many melee buffs as swordy boi.
umbra would still be considered as a prime version, because he came later in the game and was based off of excalibur himself, so he would get removed if base excalibur got removed
Wally. It has been how many years and he keeps showing up every once in a while, sometimes freaking me out. Can't wait to get rid of him.
I'm one of the probably 6 people who actually genuinely like Inaros, but he's definitely the character I think people would miss the least if I had to pick a frame.
Volt and Limbo.
Darvo
Limbo, DE has basically removed him already. Just finish the job.
Excalibur Prime so I can watch the world burn.
Octavia. She's been broken for so long and is still not nerfed, makes any mission into a joke... That or everyone in fortuna, I hate farming Solaris standing.
Eh, a lot of people say Octavia is broken but she comes at a massive QoL cost and has issues in public play when enemies start spewing AoE. Even ignoring that, her mallet is slower than a guy with a good gun outside of endurance, and the game should never be balanced around endurance. I think she's fine where she is as she's not functionally any stronger than Saryn or Mesa in normal play.
Octavia IS broken. Just the mere fact that she has an infinitely recastable 0 drawback invisibility makes her broken as in wf, invisibility might as well be invincibility... QoL doesn't matter if she can be invisible the whole game and pump out literally unlimited damage while staying in 1 spot, pressing 1, 2 and 3 every 40 seconds...
Oh yeah, infinite 0 drawback invisibility like Ivara, Ash, Loki, lol. Invisibility is useful, but make no mistake that it's not invincibility which frames also have like Revenant, Valkyr, also Loki again, and other frames who have practical invincibility like Zephyr who can just float away from her only danger, melee enemies.
Now, obviously, other frames don't have recastable invisibility but that's QoL which proves my point. Enemies don't detect you immediately the moment you leave invisibility, so you can chain it on any frame such that you're never actually detected. It's a matter of QoL preference, and most people prefer a single button press every X seconds (or once in the case of Ivara, lol) in contrast to Octavia's crouch spam.
As for her scaling damage, it's slow and relies on enemies targeting her mallet. A weapon will be faster at any level if you know how to mod it well, and any frame I've mentioned in this comment is completely capable of standing in one spot, though Valkyr would certainly prefer to run around and murder enemies.
The amount of button presses a frame requires is not indicative of their power level. I can kill everything in a mission with 2 button presses using Revenant's 2 and 4 for most missions, maybe the occasional 3rd if I need Roar at higher levels. That doesn't mean it's quick, and that doesn't mean it's strong. I'm not saying Octavia is weak, but she's not broken, at least not anymore so than the rest of the game (which I would agree is broken in general, lol).
Yeah Octavia is strong but she's my last choice for a stealth frame lol. It's clunky to use and her only good way to stay alive. I always go to Loki if I need stealth
Idk about ash and loki (never used them), but Ivara has to use silenced weapons, cannot sprint or bullet jump in her invisibility, so I wouldn't call it 0 drawback, also it's a channeled ability, constantly using energy, instead of octavia's press once and free invis...
Octavia's damage scaling could be slow in the regular starchart, but in steel path or sp circuit? 1 or 2 shots and all the enemies in a 30 meter radius are dead... That's with just 200% strength mind you.
Also, the button press analogy is kinda wrong, because with it frames like Protea, which have to constantly re-cast 3 abilities (her 1 for shields, her 2 for damage and her 3 for support) end up looking like low tier trash, which really isn't the case (total bias in the example, Protea main). And with it, frames like yereli, who can just press 2 once at the start of the game and do nothing else end up as SS+ tier god frames...
Also, yes I do agree about the rest of the game being more broken than octavia, ffs have you seen the feralx one-hit an archon? I have...
Idk about ash and loki (never used them), but Ivara has to use silenced weapons, cannot sprint or bullet jump in her invisibility, so I wouldn’t call it 0 drawback, also it’s a channeled ability, constantly using energy, instead of octavia’s press once and free invis…
Silencing weapons is easy and only requires a mod slot that is not needed for other things on a lot of weapons. The only thing Ivara needs is movement speed (or rather parkour velocity for rolling), which she can now get from yellow archon shards. Her invisibility lasts so long that it doesn't manner that it's a channeled ability, it will never run out as long as you haven't completely dropped your energy economy into the gutter. It's a single button press, as opposed to Octavia's press to enable crouch-spam for invisibility.
Octavia’s damage scaling could be slow in the regular starchart, but in steel path or sp circuit? 1 or 2 shots and all the enemies in a 30 meter radius are dead… That’s with just 200% strength mind you.
That's still slow. Waiting for the enemy to shoot is slow. I'm well aware how quickly it can kill, weapons easily do it faster if you know what you're doing.
Also, the button press analogy is kinda wrong
That was my point. It is wrong, and you were the one talking about button presses first saying all she needs to do is press her abilities to win. That's true of a lot of frames, and every frame can be summarized as 'press buttons to win' if we're being extremely reductive.
Also, yes I do agree about the rest of the game being more broken than octavia, ffs have you seen the feralx one-hit an archon? I have…
Well yeah, but that's why Octavia isn't an issue and isn't something to be removed. At least, not before a dozen other things.
as someone who mains Octavia I take great offense to this because you're clunking all of us together, some of us just use her casually and not try and break the game entirely just because we can
Saryn or Mesa
Nekros, not a huge fan of a loot bot frame that confuses other players in missions. Dont see it too often in SP, mainly just on dark sectors.
How does nekros confuse players though? He is pretty straightforward.
You think you are shooting an enemy but its a nekros mob
forget other players, I often wind up shooting my own shadows.
Oh yeah that's fair, they really should allow us to shoot through ghosts.
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